The state of The Market...

Heavy Metal Hunting, record Q's & trivia, collector stuff. Rare or not, it all goes here.
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Glockose
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Post by Glockose »

Andreas wrote:He told me that several dealers were sitting on boxes of very rare albums. They were in contact which each other, and all together created a hype around those albums, and were leaking from time to time, some of the copies, and this to keep the demand and price high.
This is very true but I dont know how much of it is done these days.

In the late 80's early 90's this was very common in the Psych world.
And noted as the "Psych Mafia". But with time and the internet MOST of this is gone. Also with the lack of being able to find large stashs (For the most part those days are long gone)

exp: in the mid to late 90's, we were tracking and buying old unsold stock 2-3 times a week. Now it might happen 2-3 times a year. Not to say this still cant be done but at least in the USA those days are over.
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msp
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Post by msp »

[quote="humus"]
But something which I find highly annoying is the dealers who buy on ebay. They buy records/CD's and then try to resell them on ebay/their private lists for double the money. I've been outbid a few times only to see the record turn up for an inflated price on the buyer's private list the next month.

quote]

I have seen this too. I was watching a MASQUE "Dead of Night" auction the other week. The guy who won it is a dealer who sells on ebay and used to on Netsounds. I think he won the LP for £40 or so. I expect it will be on his ebay listings in a few weeks for £80-£100. Not the most reliable chap either.
Remember kids, only high priced rarities are true...
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Satan is Our Pal
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Post by Satan is Our Pal »

msp wrote:
I have seen this too. I was watching a MASQUE "Dead of Night" auction the other week. The guy who won it is a dealer who sells on ebay and used to on Netsounds. I think he won the LP for £40 or so. I expect it will be on his ebay listings in a few weeks for £80-£100. Not the most reliable chap either.
Good old Bloodsports strikes again! It's rare he sells the records on though, man how long has he re-listed those Electric Wizard vinyls(all bought on ebay)

He's started dealing in CD bootlegs, selling them at ludicrous prices. As you say not reliable at all.
Last edited by Satan is Our Pal on Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tomas
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Post by tomas »

I know that one of the well-known psych collectors in the world used this trick to earn money (one of his friends told me):

You find an unknown rare record. Chances are you're not going to sell it for a high price, because noone knows it. But you put it in your list for 400$ for a couple of months. Suddenly you remove it from the list without actually having sold the LP. Your customers see this and think it got sold for that high price. You relist the same copy again, a couple of months later, for 300$ and it gets sold immediately, because people think that 300$ is a bargain (for what is now a collector's item) when it got sold 6 months earlier for 400$.
But does it slay witches?
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Glockose
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Post by Glockose »

How many people still buy off of RARE RECORD sale lists?

How many still do sale lists?
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tomas
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Post by tomas »

I was talking about something that happened in the past.
But does it slay witches?
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Glockose
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Post by Glockose »

tomas wrote:I was talking about something that happened in the past.
Know, I understand.. I am just wondering. If people are still into this.

I heard Mr.P put a list out a few months back, Do people still buy from this?

The way the market is these days I find it VERY HARD to price records
I have a pile of VERY CLEAN NWOBHM lp's right now and thought for the most part they should sell for $20-25. But I am only getting 8-15 on ebay. If I still did lists I would have priced them higher and I guess they would not have sold
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ION BRITTON
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Post by ION BRITTON »

glockose wrote: I heard Mr.P put a list out a few months back
If anyone has it please PM it to me, i need to have a laugh with the new "POWER METAL !!! TONS OF SIZZLING GUITAR !!! ULTRA MEGA RARE MASTERPIECE !!!" AOR crap that he has probably discovered.
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win

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Glockose
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Post by Glockose »

ION BRITTON wrote:
glockose wrote: I heard Mr.P put a list out a few months back
If anyone has it please PM it to me, i need to have a laugh with the new "POWER METAL !!! TONS OF SIZZLING GUITAR !!! ULTRA MEGA RARE MASTERPIECE !!!" AOR crap that he has probably discovered.
I didn't mean any offence. Like I said I heard he did a list, Thats all.
(Didn't really know people still did these or bought from them)

The main thing is I dont know if Ebay will last another 2 years, Which means at that point I would have to go back to doing lists and I just dont know how they will work anymore
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tomas
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Post by tomas »

The way I see it... The current market is very unpredictable. A record can sell for 100$ today and for 20$ tomorrow. That's why it's so difficult to put a price on some LPs.
But does it slay witches?
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ION BRITTON
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Post by ION BRITTON »

glockose wrote:Do people still buy from this?
Your question is perfectly normal since everyone i know who has traded with him in the past (myself included) was partly or totally disappointed with the way the deal went/ended. I don't know whether there are people who still put out their sale lists, however why someone would like to continue to deal with the dealer in question is something i can't understand. That's a different discussion though, sorry being off-topic.
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Helm
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Post by Helm »

You find an unknown rare record. Chances are you're not going to sell it for a high price, because noone knows it. But you put it in your list for 400$ for a couple of months. Suddenly you remove it from the list without actually having sold the LP. Your customers see this and think it got sold for that high price. You relist the same copy again, a couple of months later, for 300$ and it gets sold immediately, because people think that 300$ is a bargain (for what is now a collector's item) when it got sold 6 months earlier for 400$.
Oh my. These sort of tactics are awful but I have trouble considering which party in the transaction is worse. The person pulling the trick above, or the person that would buy an unknown record simply because someone else paid a lot of money for it.
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Glockose
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Post by Glockose »

Helm wrote:
Oh my. These sort of tactics are awful but I have trouble considering which party in the transaction is worse. The person pulling the trick above, or the person that would buy an unknown record simply because someone else paid a lot of money for it.
Well I can understand someone buying an unknown record
If it is good, when it gets known the price will only go up, So you ended up getting it cheap. Also there are poeple who want records know one else have. (I am this kind of person) I would much rather have 5 UNKNOWN records(that are good) then 5 BIG records that a lot of people have.

As a dealer I have found a lot of people like this, Even a few that are willing and able to by Unknowns for BIG BIG money.

I think this goes back to my old question of what is RARE!
Militia or Liquid Earth????
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nightsblood
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Post by nightsblood »

Helm wrote: I have trouble considering which party in the transaction is worse. The person pulling the trick above, or the person that would buy an unknown record simply because someone else paid a lot of money for it.
Exactly, BOTH parties need to know what they're doing! Just because something is LISTED for big money does NOT mean it's worth BIG MONEY. To get a feel for a record's worth, you MUST look at copies that have already sold recently, not copies listed currently as 'Buy It Now'- that info is rather useless. Also, look at the bid history to see whether only 1-2 people drove the price way up; the 3rd, 4th, and 5th place bids can tell you a lot. So can the number of bidders.

John- I don't know of anyone still putting out sale lists, but my connections are not as good as others around here. Why do you say Ebay may not last but a couple of more years? Just curious; I know their policies have become increasingly frustrating to sellers. Do you think people would really go back to the more limited audience they get with private sale lists?

Regarding your question of "what is rare?", I usually think of rarity in terms of scarcity. How many copies were made, how many are available, how often an item is offered for sale, etc. In this sense both Militia and Liquid Earth are rare. There is another factor, 'Obscurity', that affects the value of a 'Rare' item. Non-obscure items are well-known even if they're rare; people have heard about them- they're 'notorious' instead of 'obscure'. As you said, this drives the price up. Obscure items lack that notoriety; most folks simply do not know about them. This may keep the price down b/c many collectors, myself included, don't want to spend large sums on items we don't know anything about. I can't afford to pay $200 for a record that's obscure b/c if i don't like it, then I've got a lot of money tied up in it and it may be difficult to sell or trade; I have to find someone who either is familiar with it and wants it (and can afford it) or someone willing to take a chance on it. Liquid Earth is obscure; Militia is not (it's 'notorious'). Rare items tend to become notorious thanks to circulation on bootlegs, having band members go on to bigger things, etc etc.
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Post by MassOfKthulu »

lists:
P. (i got his last list,nothing of importance on it,just relliks and dark knights and stuff we're all sick of-plus the regular shit he's trying to pass off as 'unknowns' and its all a load of shit like tuff luck and rosie or whatever)
Roman,Peter,Claus: all stuff off ebay (i think? and probably trading between them/and/or sikkie,faetze honneger etc)
A few more like high roller and riermaier maybe but i dont know if anyone's paying the cash asked.doubt it
lists dont make sense anymore :noone has stuff to trade anymore/stacks of records in musician's garages are all gone/almost noone pays insane amounts anymore/and i dont know if u noticed but records are getting sold for less than 2 years ago.
Im really curious as to why ebay's going down the drain? John? your predictions?
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