Nazi- & other extreme political images?

Fucking Åmål · Post by **Fucking Åmål** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:57 am

D.I.V
Korrozia Metalla
Outbreak
Slayer(some lyrics Hanneman wrote)
Damien Thorne
Flames
Magnit/Credo(nationalism)
Monomah(nationalism)
Rozz
Sodom

Are some classical HM bands i can think right now...These bands have downright right-wing tendencies at least some band members.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:15 pm

Fucking Åmål wrote:D.I.V
Korrozia Metalla
Outbreak
Slayer(some lyrics Hanneman wrote)
Damien Thorne
Flames
Magnit/Credo(nationalism)
Monomah(nationalism)
Rozz
Sodom

Are some classical HM bands i can think right now...These bands have downright left-wing tendencies at least some band members.

To pouli mou egw to paizw me to right hand mou. Left einai 'aristero'. Thn idia malakia ekana ki egw prin. Kane mia diorthwsh

Sorry, some Greek bullshit between me and Vaggelis.

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:17 pm

ION BRITTON wrote:As i've said before they're certainly not the same thing. But if we do each oppressive leader's favor and forgive him because his intentions were good, we lose the game.

I don't forgive anyone for anything. Stalin was a monster and my opinion of him isn't any different from the one on Hitler. However I don't have the same opinion on communism as I do for nazism for aforementioned reasons: one is a system that fell into corruption and resulted in atrocity, the other is a system based on atrocity as its main point. The 'final solution' was the point. I therefore am more linient for a band that has communist iconography in their albums because they might mean something completely different than 'I like Stalin!' (check Watchtower for an example). If a band has a swastika on the cover, chances are they're not conducting a historically-valid and literary movement on the causes and effects of the second world war, right?

but there's no point trying to find which crime was less severe than the other.

There's all the point in the world.

So do I. If i like their music though, i'll listen to it. Otherwise, not.

I respect your call on the matter, though we are of different opinions.

Nazism is humanity's plague, but let's not forget the crimes of other less intentionally harmfull political systems, be it communism, monarchy or even democracy. If we ''crucify'' only the nazis, we couldn't more unfair.

Each to their own and to Cesair his fair share. IF I ever find a band that extols the deeds of Stalin I'll be sure to let you know on how I never listen to them. It's not my fault the left-leaning bands (not the anarchists) usually are humanists with reasonable lyrics and positions. I don't have to embargo a lot of communist stuff simply because I haven't seen any that is ignorant and ridiculous.

Helm wrote:Yes I would and I would engage in discussion with them because discussion is not art (in the strict sense, at least. It certainly is creative) and it always is conductive for better things for our minds. Endorsing awful art bent on horrid premises however can only result in the poisoning of your aestheses. I'd rather not.

Didn't catch you on this one. Poor English, i'm sorry.
I'm sorry, here I'll rephrase:

I will not listen to music by idiot fascists because I know it for a fact that the music I listen to for a long while starts to get under my skin, it influences me. Not that I am defenseless to this, but still, it's a matter of 'which colors do you want on your palette before you paint?'. The artistic world inside me is a very childlike one, full of wonder. I don't want nazi-shit-brown in there.

However in discussion you HAVE to discuss every point of view with anyone that is civil enough to discuss it, because from this process our minds become stronger, our beliefs more solidified, and democracy also benefits. Dissention is the foundation of democracy. We don't have to all agree and we should work it out. In discussion I am equipped to 'fight' the nazist.

You're giving me the impression that lyrics count the same as music and that's it.
It's not lyrics - music distinction. I view upon it holistically. Everything is everything. Music, lyrics, presenatation, aesthetics. I will not cut a part out because it's controversal and I still like the riffs. Fuck the riffs if they're supporting something abominable.

The 'no nazi stuff' thing whatever the case was pretty absolute for me. Music comes first for me, lyrics, logos, covers come after.
Yeah, I understand, a lot of people are like this. It's a valid way to listen to music for sure, just not mine.

About left leaning bands, besides the mentioned Watchtower, perhaps Sacred Reich are of interest to you?

Magnit/Credo(nationalism)

From what I can gather from covers and song titles, Magnit were far from nationalistic. The cover has a big stalin head looking at a clepsidra full of human skulls for goat's sake! Song titles like 'We exist without feeling our land underneath our feet'.

Metalipeiklo · Post by **Metalipeiklo** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:17 pm

Fucking Åmål wrote:D.I.V
Korrozia Metalla
Outbreak
Slayer(some lyrics Hanneman wrote)
Damien Thorne
Flames
Magnit/Credo(nationalism)
Monomah(nationalism)
Rozz
Sodom

Are some classical HM bands i can think right now...These bands have downright left-wing tendencies at least some band members.

Am I confused or do some people here use the term left-wing = national socialism? D.I.V. and Korrozia Metalla left-wing bands?

Post by **DaN** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:23 pm

Plenty of confusion between righ- and leftwing here. Right = nazis & nationalists. Left = commies & socialists.

hload: Yeah, that album is awesome! Sovjet-worshipping Folk Metal galore. I'm not too surprised by a band like that existing today, but in the 80's?? Never even heard of one.

I guess it's easier to distance oneself from the more "exotic" bands with images and views like this. It just get's too corny. Perfect example is the fantastic REANIMATCIA from Ukraine: http://reanimation.com.ua/
Musically they're as close to the old epic "Sovjet-sound" of MAGNIT/CREDO as you'd possibly get today. Stalingrad!

Khnud · Post by **Khnud** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:23 pm

Look, if a band wants to sing about Nazi ideology, Attila the Bun, communism, nihilism and whatnot, it's not really my problem as long as it's just lyrics. You don't expect every band to acually believe in what they're singing about, do you?

However, we do have a certain number of bands in Sweden closely tied to the White Power Movement (or whatever it's called nowadays). If I were to buy records from them, my money would surely help finance Nazi rallies, propaganda etc. And this is definitely where I draw the line. When lyrics aren't just lyrics anymore, but a statement for something the band actually believes in, and it's radically different from my standpoints, I just don't want to play ball anymore. There's no way in hell I'm supporting them in any way.

A personal anectode: I was about to get thrashed once in a leftist pub here in town for having a Bathory - Nordland shirt on. Apparently, unbeknownst to me at the time, Nordland Records is actually the main supplyer of White Supremacist music in Sweden. Fortunately I was able to talk some reason to the three lads who wanted to kick my guts in, and it all ended in them buying me a beer instead.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:23 pm

Metalipeiklo wrote:
Fucking Åmål wrote:D.I.V
Korrozia Metalla
Outbreak
Slayer(some lyrics Hanneman wrote)
Damien Thorne
Flames
Magnit/Credo(nationalism)
Monomah(nationalism)
Rozz
Sodom

Are some classical HM bands i can think right now...These bands have downright left-wing tendencies at least some band members.
Am I confused or do some people here use the term left-wing = national socialism? D.I.V. and Korrozia Metalla left-wing bands?

No, no on the contrary. Both me and Vag made the same mistake in translation, that's what i explained him before.

hload · Post by **hload** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:38 pm

fight on!

Metalipeiklo · Post by **Metalipeiklo** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:42 pm

On a side note: I find it very amusing that WE (people on the forum) are discussing views of bands that most people I've tried to talk with in the old Soviet Union find totally uninteresting. Some weeks ago I was at a vinyl market in Ukraine (beat that!) but all they sold was western CRAP like bad SAXON (which the local Ukrainians found real cool!) and fuckin' MARIE FREDRIKSSON (of ROXETTE) vinyls. Shit that people would PAY to get rid of in Sweden. When I asked for some good old Soviet metal I got the answer: "Maybe 20 years ago. You're wasting your time". Welcome the new era of western musical decadence...

Edit: Well, if we're talking about bands like BOUND FOR GLORY I guess there are about a million of similar NS "metal" bands... and who the hell cares about them.

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:43 pm

I think hload has misunderstood the point of the thread and is now sharing parts of his collection with us.

Post by **DaN** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:48 pm

hload:
DAMZELL were great, but after checking out BOUND FOR GLORY on M-A I think they look more like you average meatheads. Is it really any good? I think you just came up with an example where I personally draw the line when it comes to bands like this. Exactly why is a not too easy to put into words though

hload · Post by **hload** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:57 pm

DaN wrote:hload:
DAMZELL were great, but after checking out BOUND FOR GLORY on M-A I think they look more like you average meatheads. Is it really any good? I think you just came up with an example where I personally draw the line when it comes to bands like this. Exactly why is a not too easy to put into words though

i had lots of snail mail with their guitarist,ed...he wanted to go heavy metal but the others not(lack of musicians in minessota,i guess)....this is their only cd i own and it's great....to these ears sounds like speedy skyclad(although sometimes the vocals are little annoying for my taste)....but overall i like it very much.....

Post by **DaN** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:14 pm

Luckily I've never had the conflict of having to choose between a great band and it's political/ethical views. Never been a fan of either RAC/WP music, misanthropic black metal or anarcho-crust punk. The few (4) 80's Metal records I know and own w/ nazi-image seem more like a shock-value thing and even if they were the real deal, at least they weren't part of a violent, global and politically motivated movement.

It's the 'outsider' phenomenon that fascinates me about those old bands. I don't think I'd even own any of those records if it weren't for the 'kink' and my weird-Metal fetish. Musically I don't think neither HEAVY METAL ARMY, HOLOCAUSTO, EXTERMINATOR or the OUTBREAK lp are that special.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:14 pm

I don't forgive anyone for anything. Stalin was a monster and my opinion of him isn't any different from the one on Hitler. However I don't have the same opinion on communism as I do for nazism for aforementioned reasons: one is a system that fell into corruption and
usually are humanists with reasonable lyrics and positions. I don't have to embargo a lot of communist stuff simply because I haven't seen any that is ignorant and ridiculous.

This is much much clearer now. I'm quite familiar with both systems' course in history and never said it is the same. And neither on theoretical level of course. I hope you understood that i wasn't critizing communism/socialism in general, but more the huge gap that was between its theoretical basis and its practices in real life. Remember i told you Stalin-Metal?

I therefore am more linient for a band that has communist iconography in their albums because they might mean something completely different than 'I like Stalin!' (check Watchtower for an example). If a band has a swastika on the cover, chances are they're not conducting a historically-valid and literary movement on the causes and effects of the second world war, right?

Surely they don't. The way you put it now seems more solid for me and i can't say that i disagree with you. See especially the underlined words, which are key words/phrases in order to make a healthy discussion, and not draw final conclusions for anyone.

There's all the point in the world.

My opinion for BIG crimes remains the same. On other cases, certainly not. How much difference would it make if justice sentenced one to 10000 years and the other to 15000? Millions of people died in vain, and the numbers of the victims on both cases are beyond any compassion. No point for trying to characterize the degree of each one's criminality when numbers speak for themselves.

I'm sorry, here I'll rephrase:

However in discussion you HAVE to discuss every point of view with anyone that is civil enough to discuss it, because from this process our minds become stronger, our beliefs more solidified, and democracy also benefits. Dissention is the foundation of democracy. We don't have to all agree and we should work it out. In discussion I am equipped to 'fight' the nazist.

We may don't know each other in person but i can assure you that i, John, wouldn't have posted in any forum if i didn't believe that.

It's not lyrics - music distinction. I view upon it holistically. Everything is everything. Music, lyrics, presenatation, aesthetics. I will not cut a part out because it's controversal and I still like the riffs. Fuck the riffs if they're supporting something abominable.

I certianly do not enjoy the same way a song whose lyrics i identify with and another one whose lyrics i find boring or uninterested or stupid, but good well-played notes remain good well-played notes.