Ok Now that we are very off topic.
For me there is NO MORE HYPE.
How can there be HYPE in the day of the Internet?
And when MOST records can be heard before purchasing.
In the days before the Internet there was A LOT OF HYPE. But now I just can't believe it. You must be able to find in your own mind what a record is worth by listening and studying NOT by what someone else tells you.
I stated this to Dan in another thread with No reply.
I don't think the prices for USA Metal 45's are that crazy. if you look at what has come before them. If anything I think these prices and more right on then anything else since now with Ebay and the internet the collector himself is making the price not the seller.
COLLECTOR PORN
OK.daniel wrote:Well in most cases the collector with the most money 'decides' the price...
Is that HYPE?
Is that the sellers fault?
If you want the record but dont have the money.......1 Wait and see if you get lucky and find is cheap. 2 Get a better job and make more money to spend on it...... 3 Win the lottery......4 Be happy with MP3's .....5 Bitch and Moan that records are tooo much money.
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ION BRITTON
- Posts: 6645
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:07 pm
Good point, then again I'm very often surprised when some people haven't managed to hear albums that have been online for years until someone uploads them here.glockose wrote:Ok Now that we are very off topic.
For me there is NO MORE HYPE.
How can there be HYPE in the day of the Internet?
And when MOST records can be heard before purchasing.
In the days before the Internet there was A LOT OF HYPE. But now I just can't believe it. You must be able to find in your own mind what a record is worth by listening and studying NOT by what someone else tells you.
I still think that many people are influenced by the things they read on forums/websites or see on ebay about a record regardless of whether they hear it before they buy it. And what exactly do you mean by 'hype'? Aren't all the praising comments you read about a record before you hear it (and not necessarily buy it too) considered as 'hype'? Or is it only when someone decides to spend big money on a record based entirely on the opinions of others without having heard a single note of it?
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win
"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
For me HYPE is when a SELLER is praising a record.
People placing there options on here about what they think about something is not hype to me.
If a seller says "This record is the BEST power metal LP ever" $1000
That is HYPE. and if you buy it and it sounds like shore of evening. That's a dishonest seller OVER HYPING a bad record
If a seller says "Please listen to these sound clips" $8.00 and the record sells for $1000 then the buyer must have listened and made a decision to try and purchase the record for that price. THIS IS NOT HYPE.
Even if the record is Good or Bad.
Even if the buyer read on a forum like this that the record was GREAT. He/She made up there own mind with the clip provided.
I think that is the problem with a lot of people .Music Fans & Collectors - They can't seem to think for themsleives sometimes. They seem to go with whatever someone else thinks and tells them about a Record/Music
People placing there options on here about what they think about something is not hype to me.
If a seller says "This record is the BEST power metal LP ever" $1000
That is HYPE. and if you buy it and it sounds like shore of evening. That's a dishonest seller OVER HYPING a bad record
If a seller says "Please listen to these sound clips" $8.00 and the record sells for $1000 then the buyer must have listened and made a decision to try and purchase the record for that price. THIS IS NOT HYPE.
Even if the record is Good or Bad.
Even if the buyer read on a forum like this that the record was GREAT. He/She made up there own mind with the clip provided.
I think that is the problem with a lot of people .Music Fans & Collectors - They can't seem to think for themsleives sometimes. They seem to go with whatever someone else thinks and tells them about a Record/Music
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nightsblood
- Posts: 2437
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:11 pm
Yowza, lots to sort through here....
I think 'hype' does still exist in the ebay and internet era. The words selected to fill out the Item Title are meant to draw attention to the item, and some word will draw more attention- i.e., generate more 'hype'- than other words. Example:
Marquis de Sade 7" heavy metal single
vs
Marquis de Sade Rare NWOBHM Private
The 2nd title will catch more people's eye as it contains more words that will pique someone's curiosity. 'Rare' means you may not see this very often- better stop and take a look! 'Nwobhm' is a popular genre and key search term for many browsers. 'Private' implies small pressing, few made, possible a hidden gem... all ideas that appeal to many collectors. "7" heavy metal single" does not imply anything special about the record; someone unfamiliar with MdS may not notice the item b/c the advertising didn't hype it very well.
Glockose has a good point though; with mp3s so ubiquitous, it's relatively easy to HEAR the music BEFORE you BUY the music. 10 years ago you didn't have this option. If someone dyped an album on a sale list as "rare KILLER 80s US power metal" it was MUCH harder to find out whether the description was accurate. Today the potential buyer has a lot more resources to help research the item bfore buying.
However, this 'buyer research' approach starts to fall apart when we wade into unknown waters like the unknown US metal singles underground. Very little info is available for many of these, and sound clips are hard to come by. I'm not a manic mp3 hunter, but I do poke around for things I'm interested to hear, and I have a decent list of US metal that I still haven't found sound files for. So with these items, we do revert back to oldschool hype; the running joke of "oo, it's a private US metal single, it's obviously an expensive collectible!"
Changing gears...
Price and Rarity is hard to sort out. You have rare records that are good, rare record that suck, common records that are good, and common records that suck. On top of those combinations, everyone's tastes differ; as someone mentioned earlier, there's NO album that everyone agrees on. Easy example- Doomedplanet said, and most would agree, that Leather Nunn is Great and Rare. However, I personaly don't think the music is anything special. It's not bad, but it's never clicked with me the way it does many people. Thus, my idea of it's value is different; i would not pay any serious amount of money for a copy b/c I'm not interested in adding it to my collection. Someone else is willing to pay $1000 for a copy (not all copies get that high, but some have). Still others might love to have it, but will not pay the going price for it, usually because they cannot afford to. So then you add financial standing to the equation as well Three years ago I would not have paid $300 for ANY record to keep b/c I couldn't afford to. Today, I can afford to spend that much on an item I want.
Last note, for now at least:
I would add another option to Glockose's list:
-Wait for another copy to turn up!
This can be frustrating and requires patience, but it can pay off. We've all seen records that sell for $400 one day and $40 the next. This is especially true for items advertised as '1st time on ebay' or '1st time online in 10 years!'- that may be true, but it's also a form of hype meant to generate interest. If a copy didn't show up for the past 10 years, act now or you may have to wait another 10 years! People in general, and collectors especially, are not very patient and will respond to this type of hype. That copy may see the price run up b/c several people have never seen it before and they go nuts wanting to be the first to own it. But when the second copy turns up, it's not as big a deal. And when a third turns up, not such a big deal. Yes, you may have to wait a few extra years, but you may be able to get the item for hundreds of dollars less.
(Note other factors can come into play- who sees the auction, who's strapped for cash when it gets listed, who's on vacation and misses the auction... ebay involves a lot of random variables, its not an exact science).
I'm interested to see IF this scenario plays out in the US 7" market on ebay. Some singles have went for pretty high prices in recent months during their 'ebay debuts'. However, the second copy that's turned up has brought far less, at least in some cases. One single went from $219 to $56. One LP went from $450 to $158 to $78.
I don't expect this will work with EVERY item. Some of these US singles are gonna prove to be genuinely R-A-R-E such that few copies are ever offered up, and the price will stay high. Still, consider taking a pass on that 7" steel that's "never been seen on ebay before", especially if you're not comfortable with the way the bids are spiraling upwards and you're not sure what it sounds like or how many were pressed. It's up to the buyer to do his homework and know what he is buying before shelling out the cash for it.
Hope this added something to the conversation, sorry if I rambled. It's late and time to go home!
I think 'hype' does still exist in the ebay and internet era. The words selected to fill out the Item Title are meant to draw attention to the item, and some word will draw more attention- i.e., generate more 'hype'- than other words. Example:
Marquis de Sade 7" heavy metal single
vs
Marquis de Sade Rare NWOBHM Private
The 2nd title will catch more people's eye as it contains more words that will pique someone's curiosity. 'Rare' means you may not see this very often- better stop and take a look! 'Nwobhm' is a popular genre and key search term for many browsers. 'Private' implies small pressing, few made, possible a hidden gem... all ideas that appeal to many collectors. "7" heavy metal single" does not imply anything special about the record; someone unfamiliar with MdS may not notice the item b/c the advertising didn't hype it very well.
Glockose has a good point though; with mp3s so ubiquitous, it's relatively easy to HEAR the music BEFORE you BUY the music. 10 years ago you didn't have this option. If someone dyped an album on a sale list as "rare KILLER 80s US power metal" it was MUCH harder to find out whether the description was accurate. Today the potential buyer has a lot more resources to help research the item bfore buying.
However, this 'buyer research' approach starts to fall apart when we wade into unknown waters like the unknown US metal singles underground. Very little info is available for many of these, and sound clips are hard to come by. I'm not a manic mp3 hunter, but I do poke around for things I'm interested to hear, and I have a decent list of US metal that I still haven't found sound files for. So with these items, we do revert back to oldschool hype; the running joke of "oo, it's a private US metal single, it's obviously an expensive collectible!"
Changing gears...
Price and Rarity is hard to sort out. You have rare records that are good, rare record that suck, common records that are good, and common records that suck. On top of those combinations, everyone's tastes differ; as someone mentioned earlier, there's NO album that everyone agrees on. Easy example- Doomedplanet said, and most would agree, that Leather Nunn is Great and Rare. However, I personaly don't think the music is anything special. It's not bad, but it's never clicked with me the way it does many people. Thus, my idea of it's value is different; i would not pay any serious amount of money for a copy b/c I'm not interested in adding it to my collection. Someone else is willing to pay $1000 for a copy (not all copies get that high, but some have). Still others might love to have it, but will not pay the going price for it, usually because they cannot afford to. So then you add financial standing to the equation as well
Three years ago I would not have paid $300 for ANY record to keep b/c I couldn't afford to. Today, I can afford to spend that much on an item I want.Last note, for now at least:
I would add another option to Glockose's list:
-Wait for another copy to turn up!
This can be frustrating and requires patience, but it can pay off. We've all seen records that sell for $400 one day and $40 the next. This is especially true for items advertised as '1st time on ebay' or '1st time online in 10 years!'- that may be true, but it's also a form of hype meant to generate interest. If a copy didn't show up for the past 10 years, act now or you may have to wait another 10 years! People in general, and collectors especially, are not very patient and will respond to this type of hype. That copy may see the price run up b/c several people have never seen it before and they go nuts wanting to be the first to own it. But when the second copy turns up, it's not as big a deal. And when a third turns up, not such a big deal. Yes, you may have to wait a few extra years, but you may be able to get the item for hundreds of dollars less.
(Note other factors can come into play- who sees the auction, who's strapped for cash when it gets listed, who's on vacation and misses the auction... ebay involves a lot of random variables, its not an exact science).
I'm interested to see IF this scenario plays out in the US 7" market on ebay. Some singles have went for pretty high prices in recent months during their 'ebay debuts'. However, the second copy that's turned up has brought far less, at least in some cases. One single went from $219 to $56. One LP went from $450 to $158 to $78.
I don't expect this will work with EVERY item. Some of these US singles are gonna prove to be genuinely R-A-R-E such that few copies are ever offered up, and the price will stay high. Still, consider taking a pass on that 7" steel that's "never been seen on ebay before", especially if you're not comfortable with the way the bids are spiraling upwards and you're not sure what it sounds like or how many were pressed. It's up to the buyer to do his homework and know what he is buying before shelling out the cash for it.
Hope this added something to the conversation, sorry if I rambled. It's late and time to go home!
"I'm sorry Sam, we had real chemistry. But like a monkey on the sun, our love was too hot to live"
-Becky
-Becky
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ION BRITTON
- Posts: 6645
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:07 pm
I don't have anything to say against all these (glock's and nightsblood's replies) and I agree for the most part, although I think that a hype can be created by other things as well and not only from sellers. If we asssume that you can't find your way to some mp3 clips to listen to an album, a fanzine/webzine review, a forum discussion or a cool presentation of an album can create a hype for an unknown records and that hype does exist from moment you read those things until the moment you manage to hear an mp3 clip and you supposedly can decide for yourself.
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win
"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
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nightsblood
- Posts: 2437
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:11 pm
Ion- you're absolutely right. If Dan gives a Swedish single 5 Swords and 5 Shovels, that can create some hype. Even things like good cover art, a cool album title, and a cool band logo can create hype. We'd all like to think that we're too smart to ever fall for such a basic gimmick, but we all do it. You're reading a sale list and a name jumps out at you; you've never heard it before, but it gets you to wondering what they sound like. Or you're flipping through a box and a cover catches your eye. You've never heard of the album, but if it 'looks metal enough' or 'cool enough' or 'kvlt enough' you might make an impulse buy b/c the band knew how to get your attention.
Glockose posted while i was typing my long-winded manifesto above:
It's different from 'seller hype' but the end result is the same- more people are interested in the product.
The part of the song sampled also makes a difference; does the seller present the ripping guitar solo, but cut the clip off before the horribly cheesy chorus sang by the no-talent vocalist can be heard?
I do understand people asking about things like rarity, pressing size, price range, etc... heck, I do that all the time Unlike opinions of musical quality, pressing size and price range are factual data that can help a person determine things like "how hard will it be for me to find a copy?" and "how much should I spend on a copy when I do find one?".
Again, Price is a slippery devil, especially when dealing with rare items. Still, most folks collect as a hobby and have a limited budget to work with. They thus wanna get the most bang for their buck and avoid overpaying for a given item. If today I pay $100 for a copy of SYKK LYKK's 'Tongue-Tyed' 7" and later realize that it usually sells for $50, that kinda sucks b/c I spent $50 more than was necessary, and that extra $50 could have bought another item I wanted, such as SLEEZEE TRIXX "rabid wombat bloodbath attack" EP.
Glockose posted while i was typing my long-winded manifesto above:
Sellers talking up an item they're trying to sell is definitely hype. Someone posting their opinion may not be trying to promote a given band/album, but I agree with Ion that they can indeed create hype b/c they get more people interested in the item.glockose wrote:For me HYPE is when a SELLER is praising a record.
People placing there options on here about what they think about something is not hype to me.
It's different from 'seller hype' but the end result is the same- more people are interested in the product.
Agreed, and you're right that this is much less common a problem than it was 10-15 years ago thanks to the internetIf a seller says "This record is the BEST power metal LP ever" $1000 That is HYPE. and if you buy it and it sounds like shore of evening. That's a dishonest seller OVER HYPING a bad record
Agreed in general. However, I'd add some caveats. Sound clips can be biased. So many singles have a killer side and a filler side. Sample the side with the blazing, anthemic metal screamer and you'll get more bids; sample the side with the instrumental Cassio solo and you'll get less.If a seller says "Please listen to these sound clips" $8.00 and the record sells for $1000 then the buyer must have listened and made a decision to try and purchase the record for that price. THIS IS NOT HYPE.
Even if the record is Good or Bad.
Even if the buyer read on a forum like this that the record was GREAT. He/She made up there own mind with the clip provided.
The part of the song sampled also makes a difference; does the seller present the ripping guitar solo, but cut the clip off before the horribly cheesy chorus sang by the no-talent vocalist can be heard?
Agreed. I don't understand why people put so much stock in other peoples' opinions of whether certain albums are good or bad. Even on this site people gripe all the time, "How can you possibly say that album isn't a classic?!" or "How can you even listen to that piece of crap?!". LISTEN to it YOURSELF and make up your own mind, and don't worry about others agreeing or disagreeing.I think that is the problem with a lot of people .Music Fans & Collectors - They can't seem to think for themsleives sometimes. They seem to go with whatever someone else thinks and tells them about a Record/Music
I do understand people asking about things like rarity, pressing size, price range, etc... heck, I do that all the time
Unlike opinions of musical quality, pressing size and price range are factual data that can help a person determine things like "how hard will it be for me to find a copy?" and "how much should I spend on a copy when I do find one?".Again, Price is a slippery devil, especially when dealing with rare items. Still, most folks collect as a hobby and have a limited budget to work with. They thus wanna get the most bang for their buck and avoid overpaying for a given item. If today I pay $100 for a copy of SYKK LYKK's 'Tongue-Tyed' 7" and later realize that it usually sells for $50, that kinda sucks b/c I spent $50 more than was necessary, and that extra $50 could have bought another item I wanted, such as SLEEZEE TRIXX "rabid wombat bloodbath attack" EP.
"I'm sorry Sam, we had real chemistry. But like a monkey on the sun, our love was too hot to live"
-Becky
-Becky
I guess I just never listen to the HYPE.
I read books, see reviews and for the most part I think they are all crap (Good or Bad)
I see covers and song titles and I KNOW they don't matter at all.
Hell I can show you covers like Shore of Evening with Killer song titles that end up being Country Music. and then I could show you things that look like Disco and sound like Maiden
I read books, see reviews and for the most part I think they are all crap (Good or Bad)
I see covers and song titles and I KNOW they don't matter at all.
Hell I can show you covers like Shore of Evening with Killer song titles that end up being Country Music. and then I could show you things that look like Disco and sound like Maiden
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nightsblood
- Posts: 2437
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:11 pm
Glock- yep, but I think you're the exception. IMO most folks will buy into different types of hype relatively easily.
I admit I 'respond' to unknowns sometimes b/c of an interesting-sounding name, title, or cool artwork. However, before I buy I go looking for info and sound clips. Nowadays I very rarely purchase a record, regardless of its price, if I have not heard it and decided that I liked the music.
Daniel- Okay, that's just too weird... my grandmother actually owns a piece of antique glass that's called a biscuit jar, and she got it dirt cheap by burning a little kid at a flea market while his dad wasn't at the booth
It's a classic 'family story' that pisses off grandma to this day. She comes across as the classic 'sweet little ol' lady', so it really gets her ticked off that we still tell the story about her scamming some poor little kid 
I admit I 'respond' to unknowns sometimes b/c of an interesting-sounding name, title, or cool artwork. However, before I buy I go looking for info and sound clips. Nowadays I very rarely purchase a record, regardless of its price, if I have not heard it and decided that I liked the music.
Daniel- Okay, that's just too weird... my grandmother actually owns a piece of antique glass that's called a biscuit jar, and she got it dirt cheap by burning a little kid at a flea market while his dad wasn't at the booth
It's a classic 'family story' that pisses off grandma to this day. She comes across as the classic 'sweet little ol' lady', so it really gets her ticked off that we still tell the story about her scamming some poor little kid "I'm sorry Sam, we had real chemistry. But like a monkey on the sun, our love was too hot to live"
-Becky
-Becky
There are a lot.sovdat wrote:I would love to see that one, thanks.glockose wrote:
I see covers and song titles and I KNOW they don't matter at all.
Hell I can show you covers like Shore of Evening with Killer song titles that end up being Country Music.
I will see what I can pull out this weekend
Just thinking about it. I posted some pic's here a few years back of some FINDS. One was "Emerand City" I only showed a pic and NEVER said what it was
Dan started asking me for it and then it started to show up on want lists.
I had to start telling people look you really DO NOT WANT this LP. it sounds like Elton John
It's very interesing to read this discusion And a lot of phun(Even everything is going too off-topic) Anyway I post here some pics(I have passion to save sometimes these when see eBay auctions).Some oil into the fire 
Maybe Admins can create another topic like METAL MYSTERIES or just HYPE (With strange/unknown records uploads/cover artwork)
And a lot of phun(Even everything is going too off-topic) Anyway I post here some pics(I have passion to save sometimes these when see eBay auctions).Some oil into the fire Maybe Admins can create another topic like METAL MYSTERIES or just HYPE (With strange/unknown records uploads/cover artwork)