If you had lived in Newcastle in 1981...

[Black Axe]

That's like liking Slipk*** today. It's impossible. I didn't come to this forum to discover the hottest Metalcore album either.

Well chances are nobody's gonna recomend one to you either.

But takin' into consideration sipmle facts like that most of the guyz in this forum are around thirty (some a lil' less some a lil' more) and we like a gerne that was in it's heyday like some 25 years ago while we're not into most kinds of modern "metal" or "rock"............well i come to the conclusion that if we were at the same age around 85 we'd be stuck on Led Zed ,Deep Purple ,Heep and the likes while throwing shit to the modern tedencies of that era.

I don't hate modern music because it's modern, but because it sounds horrid and has zero solid riffs. Bands like Angel Witch, Witchfynde, Venom sounded like Sabbath and had solid riffs galore.

[xr2m]

That's like liking Slipk*** today. It's impossible. I didn't come to this forum to discover the hottest Metalcore album either.

Well chances are nobody's gonna recomend one to you either.

But takin' into consideration sipmle facts like that most of the guyz in this forum are around thirty (some a lil' less some a lil' more) and we like a gerne that was in it's heyday like some 25 years ago while we're not into most kinds of modern "metal" or "rock"............well i come to the conclusion that if we were at the same age around 85 we'd be stuck on Led Zed ,Deep Purple ,Heep and the likes while throwing shit to the modern tedencies of that era.

I don't hate modern music because it's modern, but because it sounds horrid and has zero solid riffs. Bands like Angel Witch, Witchfynde, Venom sounded like Sabbath and had solid riffs galore.

I think the main point is that your definition of "solid riffs" would probably be quite different if you were old enough to hear Angel Witch, Witchfynde, or Venom for the first time back then. Sure, there were probably some older people who enjoyed it, but I'd guess they were in the minority.

I guess the Saint Vitus song "Born too Late" would probably apply to most of us here.

[Nightlock]

I think Black Axe kind of has a point, I also like music because I think it's good and for no other real reason. If I had the chance to be exposed to heavy metal in somewhat of a similar way in the early 80's I think I would have liked it as well.

[Witchkiller]

That's like liking Slipk*** today. I don't hate modern music because it's modern, but because it sounds horrid and has zero solid riffs. Bands like Angel Witch, Witchfynde, Venom sounded like Sabbath and had solid riffs galore.

Not a so strong point here. I bet ya that if you were around at that time Motorhead ,Venom and the likes would have sounded just noise to ya. You know there's quite a diferance between Thin Lizzy and Venom.........

[GJ]

You know there's quite a diferance between Thin Lizzy and Venom.........

And I can assure you, that difference seemed so much bigger back in the eighties!

A personal reflection:
When I was in my early teens (1985-1987) even though a lot of the kids at school was into Heavy Metal (including Hard Rock) almost no-one would embrace the sounds of Venom, Celtic Frost, Destruction or (even) Motörhead, whilst praising the likes of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Accept and then all the way through Kiss, Dio, Scorpions and Twisted Sister to Magnum, Bon Jovi or Aldo Nova and whatelse...

I was a big time early Sabbath and Priest fan at the time (still is) and also that was sort of frowned upon (as the sounds were recognized unpleasantly sludgy, slimey, bleak and bloopy I guess).

Then along came Master of Puppets, soon to be followed by the Anthrax-clan; skateboards, cross-over and suddenly a slight acceptance of more aggressive sounds... Some old time hard rockers beginning to admit the talents of Metallica (of course still dismissing the rest of what then was called "thrash", "speed" or "black" metal bands).

[ION BRITTON]

Surely there must have been a few people who could actually stand Venom or Angel Witch back then. Otherwise Metal would have died in 1981 if those bands sounded like noise to everyone around.

[GJ]

Sure, my brother was one of them and I kind of hung on even if I always have prefered melodic vocals. Also I was just reminiscing about the way I understood the situation at my school when I was 13-15 years old.

When I was in my early teens (1985-1987) even though a lot of the kids at school was into Heavy Metal (including Hard Rock) almost no-one would embrace the sounds of Venom, Celtic Frost, Destruction or (even) Motörhead, whilst praising the likes of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Accept and then all the way through Kiss, Dio, Scorpions and Twisted Sister to Magnum, Bon Jovi or Aldo Nova and whatelse...

I have come to this very un-scientific demographical conclusion (I guessed!):

Acceptance rate (divided into six cathegories)

1. Venom, Celtic Frost and Destruction - less than 5 %
2. Judas Priest Iron Maiden Accept - around 25 % (including most of the cathegory 1 people probably)
3. Kiss Dio Scorpions Twisted Sister - well...eerrrr 40 % (same people as above, just add a few who possesses a bit more "mature" outlook - in their own minds)
4. Magnum Bon Jovi Aldo Nova - 60 % (some into pop some into cathegory 3 or 4 stuff)
5. Punk only less than - 5 %
6. No guitars at all, please! - 20 %

I make so muchi-much sense, don't I?

[ION BRITTON]

It wasn't aimed at your post GJ, I was generally speaking reading all the previous posts. Well, to me, the people who nowadays insist on and haven't quit listening to bands like Cirith Ungol, Morbid Saint or Deep Switch aren't really that different from those who could actually accept the sounds of Destruction or Angel Witch back then. And honestly, I don't believe that they are much more than 5% of the total, to speak 'demographically'. It's just that I am not convinced when I read that there's a big chance that most of us would reject those bands if we lived back then, I don't say that it could not happen at all, but I feel that the chances of 'rejection' would be quite thin in fact. Now can we please continue to a discussion with a more realistic base?

[great_knuthulhu]

Surely there must have been a few people who could actually stand Venom or Angel Witch back then. Otherwise Metal would have died in 1981 if those bands sounded like noise to everyone around.

I don't think that's what he was trying to say. I'm old enough to remember 1981, and most of the older guys (in their 20s) couldn't really grasp what Venom were about. They thought it sounded chaotic and shitty, a joke band really, and were insisting that Ac/Dc, Lizzy, Zep, Purple, Nazareth, Rainbow and the like were what metal was all about. It was the younger people who embraced thrash and speed while the veterans clung to the heroes from when they were 13.

And Angel Witch had a tiny, tiny following for years and years. They were not unknown, but not at all a household name.

[ION BRITTON]

Perhaps I didn't write it the way I wanted to, by 'stand them' I meant 'stand & understand & eventually like them'.
I can stand listening to the new Machine Head album and I do undestand it to some degree, but I can't really say that I also like it, know what I mean?

[Black Axe]

You know there's quite a diferance between Thin Lizzy and Venom.........

Not for me. Both have all the ingredients I like in heavy metal/rock. I'm just one of the rare people who would've liked all the good heavy stuff back then. That's just who I am. I grew up with generic hard rock and other crap and without heavy metal, so I know what I feel when I first hear good raw heavy rock/metal.

[Witchkiller]

Surely there must have been a few people who could actually stand Venom or Angel Witch back then. Otherwise Metal would have died in 1981 if those bands sounded like noise to everyone around.

my point isn't that there were not enough followers to the sound. My point comes from the fact that we ,20 to 30 years old people, like stuff that went on 25 years+ before. My point is that ,and we have to admit it, we're not the children of our days as far as music is concerned. Takin' this as a fact i really doubt that we would like the "new Heavy Metal thing" that was going on at that time.

All the 80ies metal bands were kids of their time being influenced by 70ies rock (they were at their late teens in the 70ies) and creating new music. The thrashers were around 20 yo ( a little more a little less) and digging british metal and h.c.punk and this stuff was NEW those days.

[GJ]

[I don't think that's what he was trying to say. I'm old enough to remember 1981, and most of the older guys (in their 20s) couldn't really grasp what Venom were about. They thought it sounded chaotic and shitty, a joke band really, and were insisting that Ac/Dc, Lizzy, Zep, Purple, Nazareth, Rainbow and the like were what metal was all about. It was the younger people who embraced thrash and speed while the veterans clung to the heroes from when they were 13.

You read minds for a living? No, I remember you're a teacher. But you nailed it exactly and managed to put it to words in a less chaotic and more educational manner. Thank you for that! I need to learn the English language!

As for my questionable use of the word "demographical" I imagined the situation at my (high-?)school (7th to 9th grade) when I was 13 years (and still open to new sounds and images). So it was the 13 to 16 year olds from this industrial small town (Timrå) in 1985 that was in question.

[ION BRITTON]

Surely there must have been a few people who could actually stand Venom or Angel Witch back then. Otherwise Metal would have died in 1981 if those bands sounded like noise to everyone around.

my point isn't that there were not enough followers to the sound. My point comes from the fact that we ,20 to 30 years old people, like stuff that went on 25 years+ before. My point is that ,and we have to admit it, we're not the children of our days as far as music is concerned. Takin' this as a fact i really doubt that we would like the "new Heavy Metal thing" that was going on at that time.

I listen mostly to 80s metal not because I love anything that's old and hate anything that's modern, but because the metal music of that period expresses my feelings better than 99.9% of the newer stuff that comes out in thousands every month. If the newer bands -who have supposedly developed the sound of metal- sounded equally cool to my ears I would definitely be listening to them with the same passion. Unfortunately they don't.
Question is if we were born 15 earlier would we be the same persons we are? If the answer is 'yes' its hard for me not to believe that our musical preferences would have been exactly the same they are today. But Im afraid that no one can answer safely to that question, so basically what we are doing now is speculations.

[GJ]

...and your speculations suck!