Why are records rare? [Merged/Admin]

[ION BRITTON]

They are both equally rare. Sanctum sells for more 'cause it's more hyped, more people know about it and also know how rare it is. I suppose the frequency they show up for sale is more or less the same. The price of each one is determined by many other factors though, not just the number of copies pressed.

[vansinne]

Animus - A Dead Life CD was also pressed in about 100 copies, perhaps less (in 1992), but it seems that no-one "in the know" knows about it - the only known copy was sold for $1 (on ebay, buyer was Roco from this forum) - would they both deserve a 10/10 rarity status or not in your opinion?

Is it any good? I just bought a copy on eBay...

[nightsblood]

For example, Sanctum - Believers CD is well known in collectors circles and is worth, let's say $200-$250 - 100 copies pressed.
Animus - A Dead Life CD was also pressed in about 100 copies, perhaps less (in 1992), but it seems that no-one "in the know" knows about it - the only known copy was sold for $1 (on ebay, buyer was Roco from this forum) - would they both deserve a 10/10 rarity status or not in your opinion?

Based on pressing #, they are equally rare. However, if you are correct that no one knows about Animus, then it is much more obscure than Sanctum, which explains the price disparity. Obscurity is different from Rarity and can have an adverse affect on value, as is the case with the Animus CD apparently. Note that Obscurity is relative; Salem's Wych is well-known to serious collectors, but an 'average' metalhead would probably consider it pretty obscure, and my co-workers wouldn't even know of its existence.
A rare record has to have some degree of Notoriety in order to demand big prices. Solar Eagle is a good example of a Rare record that's also become Notorious among collectors; that combinatoin makes it a $1,000+ item.

[ION BRITTON]

For example, Sanctum - Believers CD is well known in collectors circles and is worth, let's say $200-$250 - 100 copies pressed.
Animus - A Dead Life CD was also pressed in about 100 copies, perhaps less (in 1992), but it seems that no-one "in the know" knows about it - the only known copy was sold for $1 (on ebay, buyer was Roco from this forum) - would they both deserve a 10/10 rarity status or not in your opinion?

Based on pressing #, they are equally rare. However, if you are correct that no one knows about Animus, then it is much more obscure than Sanctum, which explains the price disparity. Obscurity is different from Rarity and can have an adverse affect on value, as is the case with the Animus CD apparently. Note that Obscurity is relative; Salem's Wych is well-known to serious collectors, but an 'average' metalhead would probably consider it pretty obscure, and my co-workers wouldn't even know of its existence.
A rare record has to have some degree of Notoriety in order to demand big prices. Solar Eagle is a good example of a Rare record that's also become Notorious among collectors; that combinatoin makes it a $1,000+ item.

Very well said nightsblood.

[Stormspell]

The only relevant factors are how much you want a particular title and how much are willing to pay. As a rule of thumb I very seldom pay more than $20 per CD and $50 LP for my personal collection, regardless how much I desire anything.

Other than that - ebay crazy-prazy or collectors overhypes have no real meaning to me, unless I'm buying to resell.

[sovdat]

Unfortunately I haven't heard that Aussie band, so we'll have to wait for Roco to come here again and upload it I watched the auction and the seller said that there is about 100 or maybe even less copies of this one.

Another similar would be Les Nulleautres CD (1994) which I bought for $5 - I don't think that it was pressed in more than 100, 200 copies, since no-one knew nothing about it, even the older thrash collector / metalhead from Quebec (Les Nulleautres were from that area), they weren't listed in m-a, google was no help, etc. ...

I was thinking about that 10.000 copies Metallica release - it may as well sell for more than the hyper rare well-known-in-collectors-circles CDs - just remember that Black Sabbath CD, that was released in 5000 copies recently - and the price is already up to $200 ...

One question about PARADOXX LP for people who've been collecting for years: When and where did you first hear about this LP and how high was the price then? Was it known then that only about 50 of them still exist? I can't really imagine any other reason for people paying so much money for such an average record than the fact that is so rare ...

[Abyss]

just remember that Black Sabbath CD, that was released in 5000 copies recently - and the price is already up to $200 ...

It seems like rhino handmade items always fetch premium prices,but I think that one went up so fast because its one of the best black sabbath live albums with dio,Its worth it to some people but its times like these downloading it is the only way most people will hear it.

[nightsblood]

Re: the Paradoxx, when I first heard of it a copy sold for around $450, but I honestly don't remember when that was.
A record doesn't have to be Good to be expensive; the quality of the music is very subjective. A sub-par album like Paradoxx will still sell for big money if it's Rare enough. Of course, the more people who think that the music is Good, then the higher the value can get. Paradoxx would probably sell for even more if it didn't have a rep for being lousy in terms of the music.

[tomas]

I find this very intriguing:
"X (insert band here) destroyed more than half of the original pressing, so only 100 copies are left"

Do you know the reason why some records are rare?
I just read that that the Ritual/"Widow" LP is hard to find because a lot of the copies were destroyed by the band because the cover sleeve was fucked up (the bandname wasn't mentioned).

[Sgt. Kuntz]

Well I don't think that makes sense, if I understand you correctly.

If you have say 100 copies of a rare album and each is worth 50€, and you destroy 90 of them, then the 10 that are left over must go up to more than 500€ to make a profit.

Is that what you mean? If you have a limited pressing, than you have less to sell obviously.

A band has to produce the right balance (not to many, not to few) to earn something.

[Vinny Black]

Of course small initial number of pressings, due to budget and/or estimation of interest in finished product. (But you already knew this?!)
And , yes, in some cases the band may have reduced the amount themselves due to dissatisfaction or whatever. There's also the 'force majeure'-thingy; deluge(!), fire, earthquake. And fuck ups in the communication between band and producer/manufaturer etc.

[tomas]

@ Sgt.:
No, I actually meant the reason why records are rare.
Was the majority destroyed in a fire or did the band throw half of them away because they didn't sell?

[Sgt. Kuntz]

Well, if you would have told any metal underground bands in the 80s, that people in the year 2009 still get crazy over their music, they probably would have called you insane.

They just thought, hey, let's press some 1.000 copies, and that was more than enough then.

But over the years, with internet and a broader, world wide fan base, there is just an increased demand for those records.

Of course, some records get lost or damaged over the years. How many, I don't know, but I don't think that that is the main factor for high prices.

[ION BRITTON]

Something similar was discussed in this thread before. It's certainly not a crime that you couldn't find it or remember about it, the discussion may continue either in this or in the old thread having in mind though that some members already said their opinion./Mod

[King Zombie]

Something similar was discussed in this thread before. It's certainly not a crime that you couldn't find it or remember about it, the discussion may continue either in this or in the old thread having in mind though that some members already said their opinion./Mod

Dejavu threads lol