*Heroes....

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:31 pm

Stratovarius - Fright Night has a few decent songs, but judging from the rest, I've never had the incentive nor was willing to put forth the effort to check out anything else from the band. This album in particular sounds similar to what a lot of German Power Metal bands were doing in the very early 90's.

Helm wrote:'SA ra cen'

This is how I've always pronounced it.

Piotr Sargnagel · Post by **Piotr Sargnagel** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:14 pm

@ Helm - The Celtic Frost question is decided - it's pronounced "Keltic" Frost, never "Seltic". How do I know for sure? This is what I've been studying for the last five years now - Celtic history, literature, mythology (from an Irish perspective).

sagrotan · Post by **sagrotan** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:54 pm

Piotr Sargnagel wrote:@ Helm - The Celtic Frost question is decided - it's pronounced "Keltic" Frost, never "Seltic". How do I know for sure? This is what I've been studying for the last five years now - Celtic history, literature, mythology (from an Irish perspective).

really??

always thought it was "Seltic" Glasgow as well..

Piotr Sargnagel · Post by **Piotr Sargnagel** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:05 pm

Yes you are right, the team are Glasgow "Seltic" but etymologically the word goes back to when the Greeks first used it in the 6th c. BC or thereabouts and they called the people Keltoi.

Ernest Thesiger · Post by **Ernest Thesiger** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:25 pm

Reminds me of the American guy who once approached Richard Burton, claiming to be a fellow "Selt". Burton retorted, "No, I am a Selt. You are a Sunt."

sagrotan · Post by **sagrotan** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:59 pm

Piotr Sargnagel wrote:Yes you are right, the team are Glasgow "Seltic" but etymologically the word goes back to when the Greeks first used it in the 6th c. BC or thereabouts and they called the people Keltoi.

thanks for the enlightenment! from the etymology it seems quite logic, they are also spelled "Kelten" in german. Never thought about pronouncing "Keltic" Frost that way, though.. (and I fear the connotation has been engraved in my memory too deeply to change it now)

Piotr Sargnagel · Post by **Piotr Sargnagel** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:16 pm

Piotr Sargnagel · Post by **Piotr Sargnagel** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:18 pm

Ernest Thesiger wrote:Reminds me of the American guy who once approached Richard Burton, claiming to be a fellow "Selt". Burton retorted, "No, I am a Selt. You are a Sunt."

haha yes! I remember that one but I couldn't think who the actor was, Burton, of course! Used to go up into the Welsh mountains, drunk on whiskey and scream at the top of his lungs to get that deep, gravelly voice.

Abyss · Post by **Abyss** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:41 am

sagrotan wrote:
Piotr Sargnagel wrote:Yes you are right, the team are Glasgow "Seltic" but etymologically the word goes back to when the Greeks first used it in the 6th c. BC or thereabouts and they called the people Keltoi.
thanks for the enlightenment! from the etymology it seems quite logic, they are also spelled "Kelten" in german. Never thought about pronouncing "Keltic" Frost that way, though.. (and I fear the connotation has been engraved in my memory too deeply to change it now)

"The reason the Boston Celtics and Glasgow Celtic and all those other sports teams founded around 1900 (give or take a couple decades) pronounce their names Seltic is not because they were founded by ignorant folk who didn't know any better, but because they spoke English and did know the proper pronunciation of the English word 'Celtic'.

"So what happened? Well, any number of things might explain why the in-crowd pronunciation shifted to Keltic (such as the German influence on Celtic studies, which was strong in the 19th- and early 20th-centuries) but the upshot is that it is now fashionable - almost obligatory - in certain circles to pronounce the word with a K sound rather than the original S sound. In fact, in certain circles (both in and out of academia) it is something of a litmus test - if you don't use the K sound, it will be assumed you are not knowledgeable about things Celtic. But the one and only reason Keltic is now one of the correct pronunciations of the word is because that is how many educated people pronounce it. That is the only logic in the Keltic pronunciation's favour. The standard rules of English, the rules of language, long use and practice, all argue in favour of Seltic, not Keltic. But it still remains that Seltic is a long-established, traditional pronunciation of the word in English. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pronouncing Celtic as Seltic."

convent guilt · Post by **convent guilt** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:45 am

About Celtic Frost, didn't Tom always pronounce it 'Seltic' in interviews? So I guess, if it's his band, however he pronounces it is correct, even if it's etymologically wrong?

Even so, I've always pronounced it 'Keltic' anyway...

First Sa-ra-sen LP is classic by the way, but the second is insipid as a dead man's dick.

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:42 am

metalhead divide
how to pronounce Celtic Frost
rages forever

Ernest Thesiger · Post by **Ernest Thesiger** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:34 am

convent guilt wrote:About Celtic Frost, didn't Tom always pronounce it 'Seltic' in interviews?

After the reformation he stuck with "Keltic".