QUEENRYCHE v/s their "followers"

[ION BRITTON]

Ion Britton, Glen and John are not brutal, if you can't hear the obvious this is not my fault...they might be raw, or"primitive" if you want but NOT brutal, and you know that I'm right..

They sound quite brutal at many moments to me. Brutal is not only Chris Barnes from Cannibal Corpse, you can sound brutal in more than one way. On the other hand, what you call primitive i might call it brutal, so in the end we both might mean the same thing...

[ION BRITTON]

Gosh this is kinda worse than I remembered it. First of all, god damn it 80's record producers, this isn't how you mix drums! Well that's a wrong point to start complaining about this record. The 'Dead on Arrival' that everybody loves, is it just me or didn't Grim Reaper also do a song named like this that also hilariously (though completely by accident I'm sure) has a similar vocal melody in the chorus. There's only one big difference: This Dirk Kennedy is no Steve Grimmett. Not to say that Grim Reaper are full of awesome all the time, but good god, Grimmett is one of the best there ever were and he's not... copying Tate. It's a good song but again I am not convinced, it's lightweight and the band doesn't come off as... muscular as this sort of music should be I think. And yeah right after there's "Will You Be There" which I remember not being able to stand in the past and this hasn't changed. Sugary aaaahh aaaahhs in the chorus and a fucking REVERB-GATE COMBO ON THE SNARE, BON JOVI STYLE ARRRRGGHHH. Skipped. Oh Veto, I start to long for thee.

"Breakout" is another total Queensryche worship song. God-damn it. Also this Dirk dude doesn't hit the high notes full-voiced, which is a sorta odd thing to complain about normally, but hey, if you wanna play in the Queensryche ballpark... Fuck you gated reverb on snare: the return in the middle of the track too.

"Backstreet Rebels" all I can hear is a gated reverb snare now. I am trying to push it to the back of my mind but it's not working. It's the same as with the original No Exit mix (on CD, no idea about how the original vinyl sounds, but I bet the reverb-gate-snare is there too) that made it so difficult for me to enjoy that record for years. I kept listening to songs off of that album from live bootlegs and Still Life disk II just to avoid the gated echo on that snare, damn it. How come I didn't remember Hittman suffering from 80s Snare (tm) I don't know, but it's really distracting me now. And this song sucks. Skipped on solo.

"Caught in the Crossfire". Hah, oh man the drummer started playing his double-kicks and it really shows how botched the drum production is here. I'll shut up about the drums though because this is a huge step up from the last two songs. Caught in the crossfire, you're trapped on the insiiiide, Caught in the crossfiiiiire! Well, alright! If the world was fair this would be the 'pop music' (but then again if the world was fair we probably wouldn't be metalheads!).

Holy fuck, "Secret Agent Man" you're awful. Am I missing something here, is this a cover of some 60's track or something? Thou art skipped. "Behind the Lines". Gated Reverb. Gated Reverb. I have to cleanse the palate. "Stand the Test of Time" no you didn't I'm sory Hittman I am sorry, I need Veto, I crave Veto!!

Few things i'd like to say as well

1) Dirk Kennedy is no Tate-clone. Partly influenced, yes, clone, no.
2) Hittman are not Queensryche-clones. They are influenced, but damn it, WHERE is that heavy influence which my ears refuse to hear? In what manner is "Breakout" a TOTAL Queensryche worship track? With which ryche track it is so ridiculously similar, so that it deserves that comment?
3) Sorry, but Steve Grimmet is no match for Kennedy. And i don't even think he's one of the best ever, really, no matter how much i adore the 1st Grim REaper album.
4) Gated reverb = new phrase to me
5) "Caught in a crossfire" sounds poppy? Only a guy who would wake up with "Reek of putrefaction" and would sleep with "Scum" could say that. Not very aggressive, yes, but you can't have a Cirith Ungol heaviness and an Ample destruction aggression all the time. I'm not denying that the whole album is melodic and even commercial at times, but you usually need a good melody to play lyrically. By thinking like this, "one small voice" should be considered as 50% pop and 50% metal, something which is 100% wrong
6) "Secret agent man" sucks
7) Even if Hittman tried to copy Grim Reaper's "Dead on arrival" (which doesn't sound so hilariously similar to my ears), they did it better. It can happen.

[Helm]

1) it might have been a bit unfair. The album STARTS very Queensryche-heavy but he tries a few personal things later on. Still, there's infulence and there's "I know how to sing all of the Queensryche songs" which I'm sure the dude did.
2) well what can I say here, it's pretty obvious to me!
3) tastes
4) gated reverb = the invention of Phil Collins. You can tell it's an 80's arena rock song from the snare. It goes like this. A snare goes SNAP SNAP SNAP when you hit it dry, right? Then you put an awful digital reverb on it so it goes SNAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaa with unnatural cavernous decay. THEN (and this is the masterstroke) so the mix doesn't become mud from many snare hits decaying at the same time, you put a gate at the end of the effects trail. What it does is check if the volume of the sample is less than x decibels, and when it is it cuts off the sample with a very quick decay. So the snare ends up going SNAAa. SNAAa. SNAAa. Get it? You know you hate it, now you know what it was you hated about it!

Here I am not saying it's not ok to put reverb on a drumset. But do it on all the parts, and do it with a not-cheap unit, and don't gate it!!

5) As I said, it would be the pop music of the fair world, I didn't say it's pop for my cousin who listens to Justin Timberlake.
6) Right on.
7) I didn't say they tried to copy them, I think it's an accident. Grim Reaper win

[Avenger]

Seriously, this is a great point: I can't really listen to anything that doesn't have CRYSTAL-CLEAR vocals anymore...no, I'm not prejudiced or sth, but I can't find quality in brutal vox for example...after all, I think it's a matter of taste...

Well that throws 80% of Thrash out the window...

Wow...

[Avenger]

Gosh this is kinda worse than I remembered it. First of all, god damn it 80's record producers, this isn't how you mix drums! Well that's a wrong point to start complaining about this record. The 'Dead on Arrival' that everybody loves, is it just me or didn't Grim Reaper also do a song named like this that also hilariously (though completely by accident I'm sure) has a similar vocal melody in the chorus. There's only one big difference: This Dirk Kennedy is no Steve Grimmett. Not to say that Grim Reaper are full of awesome all the time, but good god, Grimmett is one of the best there ever were and he's not... copying Tate. It's a good song but again I am not convinced, it's lightweight and the band doesn't come off as... muscular as this sort of music should be I think. And yeah right after there's "Will You Be There" which I remember not being able to stand in the past and this hasn't changed. Sugary aaaahh aaaahhs in the chorus and a fucking REVERB-GATE COMBO ON THE SNARE, BON JOVI STYLE ARRRRGGHHH. Skipped. Oh Veto, I start to long for thee.

"Breakout" is another total Queensryche worship song. God-damn it. Also this Dirk dude doesn't hit the high notes full-voiced, which is a sorta odd thing to complain about normally, but hey, if you wanna play in the Queensryche ballpark... Fuck you gated reverb on snare: the return in the middle of the track too.

"Backstreet Rebels" all I can hear is a gated reverb snare now. I am trying to push it to the back of my mind but it's not working. It's the same as with the original No Exit mix (on CD, no idea about how the original vinyl sounds, but I bet the reverb-gate-snare is there too) that made it so difficult for me to enjoy that record for years. I kept listening to songs off of that album from live bootlegs and Still Life disk II just to avoid the gated echo on that snare, damn it. How come I didn't remember Hittman suffering from 80s Snare (tm) I don't know, but it's really distracting me now. And this song sucks. Skipped on solo.

"Caught in the Crossfire". Hah, oh man the drummer started playing his double-kicks and it really shows how botched the drum production is here. I'll shut up about the drums though because this is a huge step up from the last two songs. Caught in the crossfire, you're trapped on the insiiiide, Caught in the crossfiiiiire! Well, alright! If the world was fair this would be the 'pop music' (but then again if the world was fair we probably wouldn't be metalheads!).

Holy fuck, "Secret Agent Man" you're awful. Am I missing something here, is this a cover of some 60's track or something? Thou art skipped. "Behind the Lines". Gated Reverb. Gated Reverb. I have to cleanse the palate. "Stand the Test of Time" no you didn't I'm sory Hittman I am sorry, I need Veto, I crave Veto!!

BUT I WILL SOLDIER ON. FOR SCIENCE!

also: DaN good luck if you go with open reviews though personally I like to go to the Corroseum website to read your opinions only, because I am not so much searching for records to download or buy as I am trying to piece together a coherent imagining of a reviewer's taste as an end in itself (call me weird but that sort of humanity in getting to know someone by proxy of what they enjoy in art is almost as important to me as finding out cool new music to enjoy myself) so I wouldn't see the point of having other voices there to confuse things, no matter how good the reviews would be. I write a lot of HM reviews (in Greek mostly, though some pieces are translated) and the rants you see above is not how I like to do them at all also. The rants are fun if you feel like them and the people that read them know you - know the music you're ranting about but not much more. A potent HM review has to do much more than that for me, it has to tackle the actual particulars of the vision and its execution.

The problem with this review is that you are being completely bias and close minded going into the album. If you would have gone into the experience open minded and defiantly wouldn’t have "tainted the jury pool" so to speak by listening to The Warning first, I'm sure that this would have been a much more enjoyable listening experience for you.

It’s so easy to go on about nearly any album released in the second half of the 80’s metal scene and slam it with a “total XXX band worship” title deeming it as unoriginal and therefore unworthy, but this would seriously limit your boundaries quiet extensively.

For someone that raves so often about the 88-92 tech-thrash movement, which is one of the most take-bits-and-pieces-from-everyone-else-and-mix-it-together sub-genres in 80’s metal, you sure are running a double standard here which really isn’t very fair.




Edit: Oh, how I now wait for mordred to come smashing through the ceiling like a bat out of hell seeking vengeance to rag on me in his highly predictable manner.

[BlackStele]

Ion Britton, Glen and John are not brutal, if you can't hear the obvious this is not my fault...they might be raw, or"primitive" if you want but NOT brutal, and you know that I'm right..

They sound quite brutal at many moments to me. Brutal is not only Chris Barnes from Cannibal Corpse, you can sound brutal in more than one way. On the other hand, what you call primitive i might call it brutal, so in the end we both might mean the same thing...

It's not the same thing. I can't believe that you can't distinguish the thin line between brutality and raw power..What I call"raw power" is the ability to bring forth an immense feeling of Might, without distorting the voice. Agility is another suitable word, when it comes up for singers such as Glen or John, who can alter their tone, giving the impression of the existance of many different singers, something that brutality can't offer, cause it is a"solid", and dull thing, quite different..As you can see, opinions may differ, but definitions exist to root the genres, you can't put em alltogether in a mixer, and start blending...

[ION BRITTON]

What do you mean by "without distorting the voice"? Like using some kind of FX to distort it? What's the line that distinguishes the mere changing of one's voice from the distortion of it?
As i've said, they don't sound brutal from the first to the last second, they just have some moments. I have the feeling that you connect brutality only with Death metal type of music and vocals. It's the emotion that i get when listening to them that matters to me, not the technique they use. Death metal is supposed to sound brutal and ferocious, but i tell you, there are dozens of heavy/power/thrash bands that sound way more brutal than many so-called Death metal acts. What i want to say is that, in my very humble opinion, there are many ways to sound brutal as there also are many ways to sound epic, evil, lyrical etc.

[Helm]

Avenger,

The problem with this review

it's not a review, it's a rant.

is that you are being completely bias and close minded going into the album. If you would have gone into the experience open minded and defiantly wouldn’t have "tainted the jury pool" so to speak by listening to The Warning first, I'm sure that this would have been a much more enjoyable listening experience for you.

That was sorta the point. To listen to this album back to back with The Warning on purpose. For fun, not to ascertain the actual merit of the album in flux. And of course I am biased, I am myself! I don't give a shit about being "objective" whatever that is neither in a rant nor in a more serious review. I am only myself and I do not counter-define myself against an imagined, completely arbitrary 'objective' straw-man.

It’s so easy to go on about nearly any album released in the second half of the 80’s metal scene and slam it with a “total XXX band worship” title deeming it as unoriginal and therefore unworthy, but this would seriously limit your boundaries quiet extensively.

That's just fine! I am interested in limiting my scope. I am looking for the ESSENTIAL, not the pleasant variations of the form!

For someone that raves so often about the 88-92 tech-thrash movement, which is one of the most take-bits-and-pieces-from-everyone-else-and-mix-it-together sub-genres in 80’s metal, you sure are running a double standard here which really isn’t very fair.

It's true what you say, I like technothrash as a form but sadly only 10 bands or so are ESSENTIAL and the rest are just mixing the Mekong Delta and the Voivod and the Watchtower up. It's my kink and I often listen to non-major bands of the form but I wouldn't exactly recommend them as essential nor do I think anyone not heavily into his form (for historical reasons or otherwise) is missing anything by not listening to the Of Rytes album.

Being fair is not what one's taste is about! I am not the final arbiter on the quality of Hittman. You are (for yourself). I just speak an opinion that is useful for discussing and just getting to know one-another, not to be fair to the band or whatever. That doesn't mean I go out of my way to be a bastard to the band, but I do trust my own taste. Don't you trust your own?

It's useful to you to know also that I grew up with heavy US METAL IS BEST METAL cult metallers telling me stuff like Hittman and Lethal are the best and I've parroted similar opinions for years before I had the courage to just think for myself with whatever comes with this. So I can tell you now that Hittman aren't my cup of tea, is that alright?

Death metal is supposed to sound brutal and ferocious, but i tell you, there are dozens of heavy/power/thrash bands that sound way more brutal than many so-called Death metal acts.

Right on! I try not to use the word 'brutal' for them though because it's been sorta tied to the death metal stuff from a 'brutl deth metl!!!11' point of view which is how Stele sees it and it's understandable. I go with 'savage' instead. I wouldn't say John Stewart is brutal but I would certainly say he's savage at times! "I NEED TO SURVIVE!~"

[ION BRITTON]

To give an example off the top of my head of what i call brutality in Stewart: Very last second of "Metal's no sin", that "UUUUUGGGGGHHH", man, it's fuckin' BESTIAL. SHEER BRUTALITY!

About the Hittman issue: I personally don't have the slightest problem even if you consider them a 0/10 band or if Kennedy's tone sounds annoying to your ears, it's a matter of taste, nothing to argue about.

However, there is something to comment on statements like "Queensryche clones". This is not a matter of personal opinion, something subjective, it's either you have listened to Queensryche and you are able to detect whether Hittman are influenced (heavily or not) or you haven't heard a single Queensryche note and therefore you can't spot such influences. ''Clone'' is a heavy word, i think Hittman, and Lethal as well, had blended their influences with their own elements and the result wasn't exactly what you'd call ''a clone''. They don't deserve such characterization imo.

[Black Axe]

When I read the word brutal in a description for a heavy metal band I immediatly start to question it's metalness.

[ION BRITTON]

It happens because of that ''br00tal deth metl" thing that one meets more often than not in all the post '98-'99 famous crap magazines...

[msp]

It happens because of that ''br00tal deth metl" thing that one meets more often than not in all the post '98-'99 famous crap magazines...

Do you mean crap like DYING FETUS and hundred's of other blast beat cookie cutter DM bands?

[ION BRITTON]

It happens because of that ''br00tal deth metl" thing that one meets more often than not in all the post '98-'99 famous crap magazines...

Do you mean crap like DYING FETUS and hundred's of other blast beat cookie cutter DM bands?

''blast beat cookie cutter DM bands'', do you mind if i start using this one?

And, yeah, that's indeed what i meant

Sooooooo br0000000tal......

[ION BRITTON]

BTW, i think Dan is having big trouble splitting the last 20 posts from the "now playing thread"

[msp]

It happens because of that ''br00tal deth metl" thing that one meets more often than not in all the post '98-'99 famous crap magazines...

Do you mean crap like DYING FETUS and hundred's of other blast beat cookie cutter DM bands?

''blast beat cookie cutter DM bands'', do you mind if i start using this one?

And, yeah, that's indeed what i meant

Sooooooo br0000000tal......

Yes, you can use it. It is not copyrighted.... yet.

I used to know lots of people who would sing the praises of bands like Dying Fetus & Cryptopsy etc. All blasting and technical at the expense of a good tune. Just comes across like "Metal Maniacs Prisoner Penpal metal" to me. Give me old DM like Obituary, Massacre, Death and late 80's early 90's scan death