Your opinions on...

[kingfowley]

Yeah I've had barcodes since my old label too.

But you gotta watch out for barcodes too, there's bootleg barcodes floating around too.

I purchase my barcodes legally through CD Baby for $55, each.

i pay $60 for mine

[nightsblood]

Good points John. My simple model does not consider a significant price difference between the boot press and the legit press.

As much as folks like to carry on about supporting the scene and being a true Brother of Metal and all that, the truth is that the price tag is the bottom line. Regardless of what the price tag reads, there will always be a segment of the fan base whom either cannot or will not pay the going rate, and instead will settle for a burn, download, dub, or cheap boot. This applies to everything, not just music (it's why Wal-Mart is so successful- they sell crap but they sell it cheap enough that people shop there). Given that fans of underground music scenes tend to wanna hear everything in their preferred genre (see note 1 below) and given that most of the fans have a limited budget for buying music (see note 2 below), this issue will always persist.

note 1- long-time fans hear lots of stuff over time and some want to hear something new/different after awhile, and newer fans often try to boost their "street cred" by becoming familiar with as many bands/albums as quickly as possible.

note 2- Sometimes it's easy to forget that most fans don't have a lot of cash to spend on buying music. For every ebayer who's paying top-dollar for any given item, whether that's $20 or $200, there are probably a few dozen people who really want to hear/own the item but just can't afford it or who think the item just isn't worth the price.

[hload]

@ Hload: How can you write all this in this thread, yet on the other hand you said this (on the other forum) about a goddamn greek bootleger SELLING IDENTICAL BOOTLEGS, YET AS ORIGINALS (I don't know if it's a 1st press or re-press my ass):

well, this guy is a friend of mine. he recently paid cash for his new 250 sq.metres appartment. he still needs furniture though...all power to him....he's not his fault if lots of fools think that is "cool" to get some "rare" boots,hehehehe......

this was an ironic post my youngman(and you didn't post everything i wrote there)....ask the greeks here or his best man-who post here-if anything is real in what i wrote....also shall i post in the other forum that you support bootleggers? also why don't you tell us how much did you sell some of your bootlegs in ebay? you are doing exactly the same thing as that greek seller.....so don't try to cast stones when you live in a house made of glass.....feck, you even sold a cheap bootleg(without saying this) for more than $100 to a band member, mr. ethical.....(and then you tried to justify your pathetic existence by saying that the band member is a rich guy, so no big deal)....people like you make me sick...

[Glockose]

note 2- Sometimes it's easy to forget that most fans don't have a lot of cash to spend on buying music. For every ebayer who's paying top-dollar for any given item, whether that's $20 or $200, there are probably a few dozen people who really want to hear/own the item but just can't afford it or who think the item just isn't worth the price.

On this note
When Vinyl was still being pressed and available in stores I THINK (could be wrong) the prices were $14.99 - $19.99 for a new release. That was 20 years ago. So to me a retail price for $20 these days is NOT BAD. I also dont think it has to do with ALL these metal heads that have NO MONEY as much as it has to do with the internet providing free music. People get a little spoilled not paying for tunes and think EVERY song should be free.

[nightsblood]

But whats even worse is that you ripped off your costumers selling bootlegs with zero quality

Again, any time that I've asked King "is this a boot?" or "is the booket cool or just an insert?" he has always given me a straight, correct answer.
The buyer has a responsibility to know what he/she is buying, and someone buying a boot should never expect it to be a top-notch release unless they ask about the quality. You don't buy an '83 Buick and expect it to perform like a brand new Corvette do you?

but what is even worse is that people keep buying your cds...

In that case, the problem isn't the bootlegger but the customer of the bootlegger. You actually have a good point here; if people would refraim from buying bootlegs, then no one would make them. Given that most people want things but want them really cheap, the demand for cheap knock-offs isn't likely to go away.

Anyway, I wonder why to buy your cds at 12 dls when in most of cases you can get a lp copy of Griffin, Sound Barrier, Exciter, Dr Mastermind, etc in no more than 15 bucks...

Simple- because a lot of people don't like vinyl and/or don't own a record player. It's easy to foget on a forum like this, where most members are into vinyl, but your 'average' metal fan nowadays owns zero vinyl items. It's the cd/mp3 age.

ShadowKing: I too always heard 'bootlegs' used in ref to recorded live shows, but I think the term has changed over time to include 'pirated' items (I used to hear 'pirated' copies used mainly to refer to VHS copies of movies)

[nightsblood]

On this note
When Vinyl was still being pressed and available in stores I THINK (could be wrong) the prices were $14.99 - $19.99 for a new release. That was 20 years ago. So to me a retail price for $20 these days is NOT BAD.

Agrred but there will always be those who think the retail price is unreasonable or who just can't afford it.

I also dont think it has to do with ALL these metal heads that have NO MONEY as much as it has to do with the internet providing free music. People get a little spoilled not paying for tunes and think EVERY song should be free.

Yes, that's added a new, and major, prolem to the issue over the past 10 years.

[Shadow Kingdom]

Yeah I've had barcodes since my old label too.

But you gotta watch out for barcodes too, there's bootleg barcodes floating around too.

I purchase my barcodes legally through CD Baby for $55, each.

i pay $60 for mine

Well now you can look forward to saving $5 bucks at CD Baby and they're for sure legal barcodes for you to keep forever.

[kingfowley]

Yeah I've had barcodes since my old label too.

But you gotta watch out for barcodes too, there's bootleg barcodes floating around too.

I purchase my barcodes legally through CD Baby for $55, each.

i pay $60 for mine

Well now you can look forward to saving $5 bucks at CD Baby and they're for sure legal barcodes for you to keep forever.

[MEXDefenderOfSteel]

this was an ironic post my youngman(and you didn't post everything i wrote there)....ask the greeks here or his best man-who post here-if anything is real in what i wrote....also shall i post in the other forum that you support bootleggers? also why don't you tell us how much did you sell some of your bootlegs in ebay? you are doing exactly the same thing as that greek seller.....so don't try to cast stones when you live in a house made of glass.....feck, you even sold a cheap bootleg(without saying this) for more than $100 to a band member, mr. ethical.....(and then you tried to justify your pathetic existence by saying that the band member is a rich guy, so no big deal)....people like you make me sick...

man dont get pissed because of that...you know hows people when money comes around

[Korgüll]

Ohhh soooryy Mr Perfect English. I'm even worse than King the Bootlegger for just not typing a miserable W

No, you're an idiot.

[Helm]

It's a shame to drop the level to namecalling. Strange for me to see this topic incite such passionate replies.

[Korgüll]

Yeah this is turning into something reminiscent of a Roadrunner forum.

[sovdat]

@ Hload: How can you write all this in this thread, yet on the other hand you said this (on the other forum) about a goddamn greek bootleger SELLING IDENTICAL BOOTLEGS, YET AS ORIGINALS (I don't know if it's a 1st press or re-press my ass):

well, this guy is a friend of mine. he recently paid cash for his new 250 sq.metres appartment. he still needs furniture though...all power to him....he's not his fault if lots of fools think that is "cool" to get some "rare" boots,hehehehe......

this was an ironic post my youngman(and you didn't post everything i wrote there)....ask the greeks here or his best man-who post here-if anything is real in what i wrote....also shall i post in the other forum that you support bootleggers? also why don't you tell us how much did you sell some of your bootlegs in ebay? you are doing exactly the same thing as that greek seller.....so don't try to cast stones when you live in a house made of glass.....feck, you even sold a cheap bootleg(without saying this) for more than $100 to a band member, mr. ethical.....(and then you tried to justify your pathetic existence by saying that the band member is a rich guy, so no big deal)....people like you make me sick...

Yes, after several people complained about that. Pretty weird sense of humour indeed. Anyhow, saying all that about King Fowley because of his Old Metal Records at one side and being friend with one of the worst bootleger out there on the other sounds pretty fucked up to me, that's all.

About the band member, we worked everything out fine, and it was a good deal for both sides. He and I were both happy at the end, so I have no bad feelings about that (nor has he). It wasn't the first time he bought that bootleg anyway. Without saying it? I thought that fact was obvious to anyone interested in the band. I always mentioned if it's a boot or not or for all other stuff (ordinary, full-length albums that were also officially pressed) I sold on ebay - or, when it comes to bootlegs, better said got rid off them. Guess how was I ripped off at the first place and how much did I pay for indentical bootlegs - at least Ludwig (Cyclone Records manager) was enough fair to sell me Inferior to None at a regular price since he knew I paid a lot for a cheap boot, but the rest was just a big loss for me - and a gain for the identical bootleg industry - even worse than Vega's CDs "imported" CDrs, if you ask me.
And yes, I guess the band member's doing fine now, hopefully he got some money off his band's official releases as well, since your friend apparently hasn't decided to counterfeit those yet in order to buy himself new chairs and a dinner table

But - can you even compare the Greek rip-offs even to "normal bootlegs" (stuff with its own artwork, Detente CD for example), or stuff, that was never released on a CD before (many Old Metal releases, Reborn Classics...), or the 1 I dared to sell (never officialy put out by a band at all)?

[Noisenik]

What Corroseum can achieve regarding bootlegs is probably known to majority of members here. First is the awareness of what bootlegs are on the market and second is the will of not invest money into them. Knocking on Metalheads' conscience. That's all. Beyond that anybody can still do whatever one wants. Debate is interesting, but avoid insults, etc.

Certain things mentioned have lowered my interest for running a label and probably someone elses, too. But I got an idea for a thread or two.

[metalmaster]

Ohhh soooryy Mr Perfect English. I'm even worse than King the Bootlegger for just not typing a miserable W

No, you're an idiot.

sincerely, you are not better than me