What do you think bands in the 80's got paid?

Glockose · Post by **Glockose** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:12 pm

Well I have seen contracts from the 80's and I think some of you would be shocked at how little bands got.

I have seen the following. what do you think?

NNR -
Shrapnel -
Azra/Iron Works -
Metal Blade -
Roadrunner -
Combat -

What do you think a standered contract was in the 80's?
How many copies do you think were pressed and sold?

humus · Post by **humus** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:07 pm

Doesn't that (the monetary aspect) depend largely on what band we're talking about, and not what label? I can imagine Flotsam & jetsam to have a better contract than Cyclone.

Edit: and, ofcourse, the discrepancy between what's in the contract and what labels actually did for their bands...

hload · Post by **hload** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:13 pm

i'd like to know more about this but i don't believe that the labels followed the same policy with all the bands on their roster. and sure i'm not so naive to believe that the bands made it from the sales. if they didn't tour they would starved....and actually this is their main complaint about their labels....

doomedplanet · Post by **doomedplanet** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:26 pm

I don't think Metal Blade paid any(many) of their bands. I know for a fact that bands that went on tour for this label had money loaned to them to pay for expenses on the road and they had to pay the label back after the tour. Of course that meant they owed Metal Blade thousands when it was all said and done. The bands that were smart registered their songs with ASCAP and got royalties for their publishing rights and they got some cash from ASCAP every now and then.

Korgüll · Post by **Korgüll** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:17 am

I would ASS-U-ME Roadrunner would have paid the best at the time, followed by Metal Blade then the rest I doubt very much at all???

I would also assume that more copies were pressed by those bigger labels back in the day, compared to now..?

...a band like Exodus on Combat would have sold a lot more back then, compared to what they sell now on Nuclear Blast? But NB probably press more now?

Something like Predator on MB would have sold fuck-all back in the day & can barely be given away nowadays?? but also, you can find cut-out copies of Toxik titles on CD... so maybe they didnt sell much at all?
& now everyone wants them!!!

Metal Blade & Roadrunner licenced titles between them for different territories so I would say it would be quite hard to pinpoint exact sales figures across the world on some titles??

Give us some insight John.

Glockose · Post by **Glockose** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:35 am

Ok now for my two cents.

Labels like NNR/Azra/IronWorks had pretty much the same deal for every band.

1) The bands got nothing to record(studio time), they had to pay that out of there own pocket.

2) Most were signed to multi record deals (so they could not go anywere else) also so the label could shop your first effert around to Majors and sell your (Their) rights trying to hit the "jackpot"

3) the contracts would also sign the rights (Copyrights) over to the labels

4) most bands received under $2k for the first release and were promised more money after the sale of the first 500-5000 copies (which would never come) since like Azra small print would state "after the sale of 1000 copies in the USA" at that point he would send all copies overseas to avoid paying the band.

5) None of these labels put any money into the band Promoting/touring this was up to the bands to do on there own. ALL MOST ALL the coverage you would see in Zines came from the bands not the label.

Most bands on these labels broke up after the first 1-2 releases since they were brocke and going nowhere.

Glockose · Post by **Glockose** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:41 am

I have some very funny(shocking) stories about these Metal Blade - Roadrunner - Combat

But maybe there is some folks on here that know first hand. Is there anyone on here that was in a band in the 80's????

hload · Post by **hload** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:08 am

metal blade was good for OMEN. according to kenny powell(snakepit issue 10) the label paid the band for studio recordings, although they didn't have an actuall contract for the first 2 releases. contract was made for the 3rd release, the curse, which sold back then more than 100 000 copies. the band was paid in advance for this. the same happen with the 4rd release. there was no tour support, though, no promotional effort from metal blade by ads in the press or radio coverage etc. and according to his sayings he's still getting royalties (i assume from the rereleases on cds etc)

on the other hand, liege lord, has been taking it deep in the aerse from metal blade and not only. they never get royalties(something which happening and today) from iron works( 3000 lps pressed, leave aside the numerous other "hot " released straight from richard's press). if they were taking at least half a dollar per unit this means $1500. black dragon pressed 4000, they never paid anything to them. not to mention the "rereleases". for metal blade i could never get an exact answer from matt vinci-who was the main reason that metal blade signed them, simply by giving a call to slagel- because he's very angry about them. he told me that metal blade was the label that screw them the most! needless, of course, to say that all the studio recordings for the 3 releases were straight from the pocket of the members of the band. here i have to say that, although at the moment of king's rerelease that cd was not authorised, the band never had a problem. perhaps king sent them money or cds.

something general: it's a pain in the ass knowing that small labels of today, like evil legend, steel legacy, doomplanet, miskatonic etc do their best for their bands, making much much much more hard effort just to cover their expenses while in the past the leeches from bigger labels like the aforementioned had it everything in their hands( and the master tapes of course). they practically did nothing for their bands, though they made big $$$. sure and the nowadays "metal" fans would be blamed also for this situation.
but on the other hand, i thank god for the presence of labels like black dragon, metal blade, NR, axekiller etc because even a kid of today, who's just discovering metal, has the chance to get some masterpieces without having to pay big $$$ to obtain them as "private" releases. if private crap like messiah, ravenbitch, hammerwitch, wyzard etc goes for big $$$ then masterpieces like freedom's rise, target earth, gargoyle etc would have cost huge land properties....

Korgüll · Post by **Korgüll** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:53 am

hload wrote:contract was made for the 3rd release, the curse, which sold back then more than 100 000 copies.

These are crazy figures? I don't believe this!

There is a difference between sold & actually bought!

So many people rave-on about selling 1000's of copies, but you always have to question how many are actually purchased by the general public in record stores as opposed to how many get put in the stores on 'sale or return' & then end up getting sent back to the label & then turning into something like a cut-out...?

Maybe 90,000 copies of this album were cut-outs????????????

hload · Post by **hload** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:05 am

Korgüll wrote:
hload wrote:contract was made for the 3rd release, the curse, which sold back then more than 100 000 copies.
These are crazy figures? I don't believe this!

There is a difference between sold & actually bought!

So many people rave-on about selling 1000's of copies, but you always have to question how many are actually purchased by the general public in record stores as opposed to how many get put in the stores on 'sale or return' & then end up getting sent back to the label & then turning into something like a cut-out...?

Maybe 90,000 copies of this album were cut-outs????????????

i believe this statement. back then people used to buy releases. not like today. and have in mind that omen, after this release, had at least 30 dates in US/CAN opening for motorhead/saxon among others. of course then , that prick, kenny powell, fired j.d. kimball.

The Sentinel · Post by **The Sentinel** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:10 am

glockose wrote:
Most bands on these labels broke up after the first 1-2 releases since they were brocke and going nowhere.

If I'm correct, all bands on NNR only got a debutalbum

Sad story, most bands were totally killer: Deadly Blessing, Amulance, Cerebus, Dream Death etc

Fucking Åmål · Post by **Fucking Åmål** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:46 am

hload wrote: if private crap like messiah, ravenbitch, hammerwitch, wyzard etc goes for big $$$ then masterpieces like freedom's rise, target earth, gargoyle etc would have cost huge land properties....

Messiah crap ?:shock:

If only one US private release claims to be total masterpiece it deserves to be definitely Messiah.

Post by **DaN** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:27 am

Fucking Åmål wrote:if private crap like messiah...

Tyst min mun får du socker...

An interesting subject for sure, and one that is often forgotten in these days when true Metal is merely an underground phenomenon. Still you have to forgive these bands for signing crappy contracts back then, since there was still a chance (if ever so slim) that they could actually make a career of making great Metal Music in the long run.

It kinda makes you wonder what the 80's Metal scene would have been like if the bands back then had glanced towards the DIY scene of the punks and gone a bit more autonomous. The rock dreams of mega-stardom were always both the charm and the handicap of 80's Metal. I guess this naivety and blind striving towards higher goals is what made Metal so great back then.

Nightlock · Post by **Nightlock** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:02 am

I like what you wrote in that last bit, Very poetic Dan

.

ChildOfTheDamned · Post by **ChildOfTheDamned** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:38 am

I think Heir Apparent never took a penny from Black Dragon for Graceful Inheritance,the first time they took some money from it was when they rereleased it on CD in the late 90s! Geesh!