Conspiracy theories:Who really wrote Headless Cross and TYR?

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:27 pm

It's always been the band writing, like it is stated on the records, so why phrase it as "a ton of people have written for Sabbath".

mordred · Post by **mordred** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:35 pm

daniel wrote:It's always been the band writing, like it is stated on the records, so why phrase it as "a ton of people have written for Sabbath".

Because a ton of people have been members of Black Sabbath?

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:08 am

ION BRITTON wrote:Maybe an ancient race came in contact with Iommi and gave him those great ideas. Who knows.

Depends on which ancient race ... if Inka, Maya or Etruscians then I wouldn't agree. I'm open for alien theories in the typical John Cyriis vein, but that's it.

However, if I'd knew that a question that can be answered rather easy would turn into "this above" I'd never have asked. Why always taking simple things way to personal? Mordred's statement was the most logical and explainable btw. and supports my heretic theory. Yeah, I confess I'm a heretic ... I don't like the fact that "Headless cross" and "TYR" are Sabbath album ...

msp · Post by **msp** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:58 am

ION BRITTON wrote:Maybe an ancient race came in contact with Iommi and gave him those great ideas. Who knows.

Maybe Black Stele was right all those years ago about Ancient Greeks and spaceships?

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:10 am

See that's the thing about what Mordred said that is "irritating", that it suggests Iommi simply stepped back and let others completely write songs "for Sabbath", didn't work that way, SO FUCKING GET OVER IT. And Prowler, your idea is idiotic, gonna say it again because you're acting annoying as hell, just because you hatched this retarded notion based on not liking Sabbath much doesn't give it any credence whatsoever. Why aren't you saying "Eternal Idol" and "Seventh Star" don't sound like Sabbath either? Or the Dio albums?

Thought I'd try not get into arguments like this again but damn when someone has to come up with these conspiracy theories it reminds me of people's "theories" about certain films being dreams all the way through etc. and sets the meters to red.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:43 am

Especially Seventh Star sounds more 'different' and less Sabbathic than let's say Eternal Idol, just listen to "Heart like a wheel" or "Stranger to love". It's still a great record with the titanic s/t track being an all-time Black Sabbath favorite of mine. How come this crazy concept doesn't apply to this record as well? Or like we've said before to Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules too? The idea is just too absurd and illogical for me to bother more.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:54 am

*hugs Ion John*

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:56 am

msp wrote:
ION BRITTON wrote:Maybe an ancient race came in contact with Iommi and gave him those great ideas. Who knows.
Maybe Black Stele was right all those years ago about Ancient Greeks and spaceships?

I was thinking maybe it was some direct ancestor of Tyr himself

mordred · Post by **mordred** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:58 am

daniel wrote:See that's the thing about what Mordred said that is "irritating", that it suggests Iommi simply stepped back and let others completely write songs "for Sabbath", didn't work that way, SO FUCKING GET OVER IT.

When did I say Iommi stepped back? And how the heck was what I wrote irritating? Sheesh. In all fairness you and others were making it sound as if Tony Iommi wrote all of Tyr and possibly wrote every Black Sabbath song ever released on his own which is far from the truth. Iommi has always been a team player and Black Sabbath have in fact had "a ton of people" writing and playing, some as members but also some as pure hired guns, even studio musicians.

For example Bob Daisley plays bass guitar on the Eternal Idol album. Nearly all the lyrics and melodies on the album are written by him. On most editions of the album it says everything's written by Iommi which is not true. Daisley wrote for the album but never played a show with Black Sabbath and was probably never considered a member by anybody.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:04 am

mordred wrote: In all fairness you and others were making it sound as if Tony Iommi wrote all of Tyr and possibly wrote every Black Sabbath song ever released on his own which is far from the truth.

No, he didn't write 'everything' Sabbath did but his contribution is much greater than it is implied. At least as far as the instrumental part is concerned.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:05 am

Yeah maybe that was harsh, it was fuelled by Prowler using it as an excuse to further his point.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:38 am

Prowler wrote:
daniel wrote:What an absurd idea. "Too great for them", sorry, one of the dumbest things I've heard about Sabbath... Also, you think after all the albums they'd done, suddenly Iommi would have someone else write one for them????
Compare the other albums with "TYR" I say, does not fit to Iommi's style. Not more not less ... it's not dumb, I just don't believe what someone else wants me to think. I have ears, little Metal detectors, and I know how to use em ...

The 70's and 80's brought very different styles. It's not that hard to believe that Iommi took influence and was inspired by what was going on else where during a certain period when writting various Sabbath albums. I wouldn't expect the last album put out by the band to sound like the first. Times change.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:41 am

Prowler wrote:
daniel wrote: Btw, the Kiss/Pentagram song thing turned out to be nothing more than a story as far as I know.
Told by Bobby Liebling himself ... so in your own words I find it very disrespectful to call Bobby Liebling a liar. ha ha

Dan the wise man once said "Never trust a musician".

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:10 pm

daniel wrote:Yeah maybe that was harsh, it was fuelled by Prowler using it as an excuse to further his point.

But my point was right, it's not an "Iommi album", if you like that idea or not. Blame Mordred now, he's proven the conspiracy theory ... I'm just the thinker, nothing more ... the proof was delivered by others and you couldn't prevent it ... end of story. I don't even want to imagine what would happen if I say that Kiss and AC/DC are total crap ... WW3 + 4 at the same time ...

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:01 pm

JESUS. CHRIST. You have not been proven right. Most songs were band efforts, right from the first fucking demo in the 60's, you IDIOT.