BROCAS HELM LP + CONVIXION Single NEW RELEASES!

[eatmetalgreg]

That's internet my friends...
A real useless piece of shit (sorry shit!) can speak......
Nerds who never touched a girl, can call an underground metal label "shit"....
how fuckin' lame metal has become.......

HEY DANIEL (i expect an answer on this) : how really can you tolerate this?

[Avenger]

That's internet my friends...
A real useless piece of shit (sorry shit!) can speak......
Nerds who never touched a girl, can call an underground metal label "shit"....
how fuckin' lame metal has become.......

HEY DANIEL (i expect an answer on this) : how really can you tolerate this?

I love how several people of this forum are arguing about the garbage YOU pull with YOUR label and instead of joining you sit in the corner and call names like a 12 year old.

And come on greg, I have seen your photo's. You can't tell me that you get many women. Hahaha...

[quietus]

Downloading a record to see if you like it to save yourself $15.00 is encouraged an applauded here.

Label owners who put up four or five thousand of their own money and do all the work but do a smaller pressing to see if it sells only to put the money back into a repress so more people can have them are ridiculed.

Great stuff guys.

I didn't know there were people who bought records other than to listen to them and crack a beer. Happy as hell to be out of touch on this one as well.

[Dodens Grav]

Use your head. Of all the distros that were selling the LP there is ONE common denominator: they were all purchased from greg. Ten different distros didn't all make up the same bullshit trying to claim the record was "limited edition" when they really weren't. You are also making a poor argument comparing eat metal records to other record companies. I don’t give a shit if other companies are doing it as well. One wrong, two wrongs or ten wrongs do not make a right. The record was marked as “limited edition” and HAND NUMBERED. It was hand numbered showing how many pressings were to be made. If it had an unlimited print run then it should not have been hand numbered to begin with. Sure the record sold well, I understand that but then greg should have either pressed more copies to begin with numbering them higher or accepted the fact that because he made a claim that the record was “limited edition” held true to that and ended it there.

Why do you not understand the difference between an edition or pressing being limited and the number of editions or pressings themselves being limited? If you press 1,000 editions of a record, each of them in quantities limited to 100, then every single one of those pressings is a limited edition pressing. Greg stating that the first press of the LP was a limited pressing was a factual statement. It was a limited edition. The second pressing is also a limited edition. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Eat Metal has done here or what High Roller Records does. In fact, it's a very good thing that they do.

The hand numbering shows how many copies in a particular press there are and which one, specifically, an individual record is sequentially in that pressing. If you can't comprehend the difference between #255 in the first press and #255 in the second press, then you shouldn't be involved in this discussion. Your argument would be stronger if the "second press" actually began its numbering where the first press left off. Because the sequence starts over with the second press, it clearly differentiates itself as a separate limited edition. And, again, Greg never claimed to be pressing only ever one limited edition. He merely stated, accurately, that the first pressing was a limited edition pressing. He did not mention the theoretical possibility of a second pressing, but that could be because it wasn't decided beforehand that there would be a second pressing.

My comment regarding bootlegs is legitimate because you can’t seem to grasp the moral concept of what is right and what is wrong. It’s simply wrong to make false claims to your customer.

There is no "right" and "wrong" here. Greg did not make a false claim. There is no substance to your argument. Your only recourse is to grow a pair and get the hell over it. I agree that it's wrong to make false claims to your customer. The problem is that you fail to understand what constitutes a false claim in this instance because you fail to understand that "limited edition" does not mean "only ever edition". When "only ever edition" is meant, it is normally stated (frankly, because it's a selling point), like The Crypt does, which I have already pointed out. If you can point out an instance in which Greg claims outright that the Brocas Helm LP was to be a one-time only edition, then I will eat shit and apologize.

I do not hold a bias towards eat metal records. I thought the company was shit before I even had any transactions with greg and I thought the company was shit before this lie about a “limited edition” record was proven. It’s common sense to assume that a “limited edition” of a hand numbered reccord is also limited to that single press, otherwise what the hell is the point of hand marking them to begin with?

Thinking that a company is shit is bias. That does not mean that it's a bad thing to hold a bias. It's just silly to deny a bias when one possesses it. I have a bias toward metal. I have a bias against chick flicks. I have a bias toward doing business with Shadow Kingdom Records and Nuclear War Now! Productions. I have a bias against doing business with Necroharmonic Productions and Eat Metal Records.

It is not "common sense" at all to assume that a hand numbered limited edition is also limited to a single press. And even if it were, you claim yourself that it is an assumption, and does not necessarily logically follow. Therefore to hold a record company to your own personal assumption and rail against them when your assumption fails to reflect reality makes no sense whatsoever. Here's some advice for you in the future. Unless a label outright states that one of their releases will be limited to 1 pressing ever, don't ever assume that there will never be another pressing of that release.

[Dodens Grav]

To my understanding, thats exactly what "limited edition" means. The only release in this form. Otherwise, what's the point of it anyway? Why advertise and sell it as such?

It's unfortunate that you are inclined to make this assumption, because it is so often contradicted that it's basically an unreasonable assumption to hold. Thus, the condemnation that you and others hold as an extension of the violation of this assumption is baseless. You merely assume that "limited edition" means "only edition" when there is no reason to assume that. The only thing that is implied in the term is that the particular edition in question is limited. Any record that has multiple editions has had limited editions. Otherwise it would only have one edition ever, and it would be an unlimited one. So basically for anybody that has multiple editions of the same record, you have multiple limited editions of the same record.

I think it should be obvious why releases are marketed as limited. It helps the records to sell faster by creating a sense of urgency, especially for the first press, since collectors tend to value first presses above all others. Almost are pressings of records are technically limited, regardless of whether or not they are actively marketed as limited.

Someone might wanna start a new topic with a poll on this subject to get an impression of the general view on "unlimited limited editions".

It's funny that you evidently hold the belief that the idea of "unlimited limited editions" is either stupid or nonsensical when it makes perfect sense, both literally and economically. To again use Pagan Altar as an example, while they do not actively differentiate "pressings" or "editions" for their CDs, they do print only a certain amount at a time and wait for their copies to sell until they print another edition. They print 500 at a time instead of 5,000 so they're not burdened with 1,000s of CDs at a time that they in no way can be sure will sell, let alone sell in a timely manner. This is why labels like HRR use multiple limited editions, or "unlimited limited editions", to sell their records, so they always make sure that they don't bite off more than they can chew.

[Avenger]

Use your head. Of all the distros that were selling the LP there is ONE common denominator: they were all purchased from greg. Ten different distros didn't all make up the same bullshit trying to claim the record was "limited edition" when they really weren't. You are also making a poor argument comparing eat metal records to other record companies. I don’t give a shit if other companies are doing it as well. One wrong, two wrongs or ten wrongs do not make a right. The record was marked as “limited edition” and HAND NUMBERED. It was hand numbered showing how many pressings were to be made. If it had an unlimited print run then it should not have been hand numbered to begin with. Sure the record sold well, I understand that but then greg should have either pressed more copies to begin with numbering them higher or accepted the fact that because he made a claim that the record was “limited edition” held true to that and ended it there.

Why do you not understand the difference between an edition or pressing being limited and the number of editions or pressings themselves being limited? If you press 1,000 editions of a record, each of them in quantities limited to 100, then every single one of those pressings is a limited edition pressing. Greg stating that the first press of the LP was a limited pressing was a factual statement. It was a limited edition. The second pressing is also a limited edition. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Eat Metal has done here or what High Roller Records does. In fact, it's a very good thing that they do.

The hand numbering shows how many copies in a particular press there are and which one, specifically, an individual record is sequentially in that pressing. If you can't comprehend the difference between #255 in the first press and #255 in the second press, then you shouldn't be involved in this discussion. Your argument would be stronger if the "second press" actually began its numbering where the first press left off. Because the sequence starts over with the second press, it clearly differentiates itself as a separate limited edition. And, again, Greg never claimed to be pressing only ever one limited edition. He merely stated, accurately, that the first pressing was a limited edition pressing. He did not mention the theoretical possibility of a second pressing, but that could be because it wasn't decided beforehand that there would be a second pressing.

My comment regarding bootlegs is legitimate because you can’t seem to grasp the moral concept of what is right and what is wrong. It’s simply wrong to make false claims to your customer.

There is no "right" and "wrong" here. Greg did not make a false claim. There is no substance to your argument. Your only recourse is to grow a pair and get the hell over it. I agree that it's wrong to make false claims to your customer. The problem is that you fail to understand what constitutes a false claim in this instance because you fail to understand that "limited edition" does not mean "only ever edition". When "only ever edition" is meant, it is normally stated (frankly, because it's a selling point), like The Crypt does, which I have already pointed out. If you can point out an instance in which Greg claims outright that the Brocas Helm LP was to be a one-time only edition, then I will eat shit and apologize.

I do not hold a bias towards eat metal records. I thought the company was shit before I even had any transactions with greg and I thought the company was shit before this lie about a “limited edition” record was proven. It’s common sense to assume that a “limited edition” of a hand numbered reccord is also limited to that single press, otherwise what the hell is the point of hand marking them to begin with?

Thinking that a company is shit is bias. That does not mean that it's a bad thing to hold a bias. It's just silly to deny a bias when one possesses it. I have a bias toward metal. I have a bias against chick flicks. I have a bias toward doing business with Shadow Kingdom Records and Nuclear War Now! Productions. I have a bias against doing business with Necroharmonic Productions and Eat Metal Records.

It is not "common sense" at all to assume that a hand numbered limited edition is also limited to a single press. And even if it were, you claim yourself that it is an assumption, and does not necessarily logically follow. Therefore to hold a record company to your own personal assumption and rail against them when your assumption fails to reflect reality makes no sense whatsoever. Here's some advice for you in the future. Unless a label outright states that one of their releases will be limited to 1 pressing ever, don't ever assume that there will never be another pressing of that release.

You can try and come up with all of the bullshit terms you want to try and squeeze your way out of this but it’s simply not true. Anything that’s “limited edition” especially when numbered has one predetermined set amount of copies. If more are made then the “limited edition” status is a lie.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_edition

http://www.answers.com/topic/limited-edition

Now be a big boy and just admit that you are wrong and get off greg’s balls.


Regarding the claim of having a bias. I don’t. Like I’ve already said repeated times, I’ve always thought eat metal to be a shitty label and regardless still gave greg the benefit of the doubt on two separate occasions. Both times ended badly and I still hold the same opinion. I’m not specifically raging on eat metal because of my past issues with the label but because the problem was brought up and I have an opinion on the subject. If I really had a bias towards the label and was hell bent on trying to bring it down I would be bringing up my past issues with greg in every single promotion/sales thread that he makes not only on this forum but everywhere else that I’ve seen him post. If the issue were brought up about HRR or any other label then I would hold the same opinion.

multiple limited editions

Nice oxymoron there buddy.

To again use Pagan Altar as an example, while they do not actively differentiate "pressings" or "editions" for their CDs, they do print only a certain amount at a time and wait for their copies to sell until they print another edition. They print 500 at a time instead of 5,000 so they're not burdened with 1,000s of CDs at a time that they in no way can be sure will sell, let alone sell in a timely manner.

There is nothing wrong with this because they aren't specially hand numbered and labeled as "limited edition" Totally irreverent comparison.

[Stormspell]

Dudes, you both seem to forget the simple fact that first pressing was on GREEN and BLACK vinyl respectively, while the second pressing is on SPLATTER vinyl. So technically from collector's standpoint those should be three distinct products.

In other words, after the first pressing there were 150 GREEN vinyls, and after the second pressing, there are still 150 GREEN vinyls => no violation of the limitations.

See, I solved this for you. Can we close this case now please

[Trigger]

Rob has already quoted on that,so don't bother asking.You ask the opinion of a fan/collector and another one from a collector/dealer,what do you expect to get?But using the word "fraud" is quite harsh,don't you see?You should consider other things as more of a fraud in the record selling business but you probably avoid doing so for obvious reasons.Also,you don't call it a "fraud" when other labels-(buddies?) act in a similar fashion or even when the product offered is of questionable quality.If your question is whether Greg did it for collectors,then the answer is no,this release wasn't intended for collectors and the fact that not 5000 copies were made needs no explanation why.You take a risk when collecting records,that's what all collectors say till the LP is officially registered a collectible one,sometimes the risk is not coming through.

In Robs posts I don't see any comment on the re-press thing itself.

And about having an issue with Greg: No, not at all! I didnt do helluva lot business with him, but what we did always went easy and relaxed, as well as all communication we had, theres nothing personal involved. I told him my opinion earlier by email already.

And about other labels doing the same shady thing: I stated that myself earlier in the thread. I despise this equally from everyone/every label, buddy or not. And I had this very same discussion not only here and not only about Eat Metal.
I sucks equally from everyone doing this.

I was talking about Avenger's issues that I know he had a few,I know of no other issues,so it was not about you.Sorry I didn;t specify that!

[Trigger]

I didn't know there were people who bought records other than to listen to them and crack a beer. Happy as hell to be out of touch on this one as well.

Which planet are you from,our world is full of them!Now I'm wondering.....
....still wondering....wondered.
Guess again and better make a poll about how many sealed copies people keep in their houses(talking ABOUT SINGLE COPIES OF COURSE)!

[GJ]

better make a poll about how many sealed copies people keep in their houses(talking ABOUT SINGLE COPIES OF COURSE)!

0

[Trigger]

better make a poll about how many sealed copies people keep in their houses(talking ABOUT SINGLE COPIES OF COURSE)!

0

A

[GJ]

Thanks!

[Trigger]

Well,I had to,my values of courtesy order it!

[Dodens Grav]

You can try and come up with all of the bullshit terms you want to try and squeeze your way out of this but it’s simply not true. Anything that’s “limited edition” especially when numbered has one predetermined set amount of copies. If more are made then the “limited edition” status is a lie.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_edition

http://www.answers.com/topic/limited-edition

Now be a big boy and just admit that you are wrong and get off greg’s balls.

An "edition" is "limited" as long as there's a finite amount of copies, regardless of whether or not it's marketed and sold as a "limited ediition release". Besides, I don't have the actual record itself, but I don't see Greg himself anywhere using the exact phrase "limited edition". I see him saying "limited to 500 copies", a purely factual statement for each individual edition of the release, but I don't see him using the phrase that is getting your panties in a knot. And as I said earlier, the first and second presses are different editions, and each edition is limited. It's quite obnoxious that you choose to ignore this. And as Iordan has pointed out, the separate editions are readily distinguishable by their appearance. The issue here is not that Greg made a false claim, it's that you made a false assumption, and you're unwilling to accept that.

Regarding the claim of having a bias. I don’t. Like I’ve already said repeated times, I’ve always thought eat metal to be a shitty label and regardless still gave greg the benefit of the doubt on two separate occasions. Both times ended badly and I still hold the same opinion. I’m not specifically raging on eat metal because of my past issues with the label but because the problem was brought up and I have an opinion on the subject. If I really had a bias towards the label and was hell bent on trying to bring it down I would be bringing up my past issues with greg in every single promotion/sales thread that he makes not only on this forum but everywhere else that I’ve seen him post. If the issue were brought up about HRR or any other label then I would hold the same opinion.

Obviously you have difficulty understanding what a bias is.

multiple limited editions

Nice oxymoron there buddy.

I forgive you because your native tongue is Canadian-eh, and not English, but seriously, you are of a simple mind it you cannot comprehend the clarity and straightforwardness of the concept of more than one limited edition. Maybe if will help you understand the concept of "multiple limited editions" if you have an example of multiple limited editions that occur simultaneously. For example, Century Media has started to press unique limited edition copies of some of their LP reissues for specific record labels. NWN! Productions, for example, had special copies of many of their releases (like At the Gates, Unleashed, Grave, and others) that were made exclusively on a transparent green wax, while other specific distros had their own special variations, each constituting a separate limited edition of the same release.

There is nothing wrong with this because they aren't specially hand numbered and labeled as "limited edition" Totally irreverent comparison.

Irreverent? There goes your native Canadian cropping up again. The word that you were searching for was "irrelevant".

[daniel]

Why are you specificaly asking me for a reply Greg? What's this got to do with me?