Albanian metal - A brief history

jnfernal · Post by **jnfernal** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:23 pm

I collected a lot of pictures but I crashed my pc a month ago or so, so I lost everything...fortunately I sent this article to you some time before and it didn't went lost. Of course I can gather some pictures but the problem is that on monday I am moving to UK for a month, so I am afraid I can't do much within a 2 days....but I'll try

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:54 pm

jnfernal wrote: For all the greek people...sorry but I think this is not the bast place where to show nationalism or national pride. Italy recognizes Macedonia as an independent state under the name "Macedonia" and I have no problem to call that country "Macedonia" as stated on the maps, official documents and so on. Everytime I go to Greece I have to be very careful in talking: I can't say "Istambul", I can't say "kebab", I can't say "Macedonia"...this is pretty sad as I am not used to this kind of aggressive nationalism. We had it once, until 60 years ago and it lead only to hate and destruction and still the wounds are not forgotten. Try to be more flexible and concentrate on more serious problems instead of arguing on some country name or some nationalistic pride. In case there would be problem in saying Macedonia (oh my God, I said it!) I won't allow anybody to publish my article. Nationalism makes me feel sick. Sorry for being honest. Thank you.

Dude, you're a bit off here. In fact, you're way off. Just because your country recognizes FYROM as Macedonia, doesn't mean you can go free in public claiming that FYROM IS Macedonia. I gotta tell you that Greece and several other countries as well do NOT recognize their constitutional name. When you're in a public forum you have to respect that, you can't come so easily and say that 'hey FYROM is Macedonia, no big deal for all you Greeks'. Would you feel comfortable if Greece claimed that for example a part of Italy must be called Corfu and people here started saying the same thing? It has nothing to do with aggressive nationalism, I can't believe I read that term in your post...About the 'official' documents and the maps you're referring to, I suggest you made a more thorough research on those things before you type them in public... Anyway, no one said that you can't write it, but if you write it, you gotta expect some sort of response. It's not your country, it's not your history, I don't expect you to care about it, but that doesn't mean that all others should shut the fuck up and remain silent.

For those who don't know, here's a few words from wikipedia that can enlighten you a bit

The Macedonia naming dispute refers to the disagreement over the use of the name Macedonia between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia. Greece opposes the post-1991 constitutional name of its northern neighbour, citing historical and territorial concerns resulting from the ambiguity between it and the adjacent Greek region of Macedonia. Greece also objects to the ambiguous use of the term Macedonian for the neighbouring country's main ethnic group and language. The dispute has escalated to the highest level of international mediation, involving numerous attempts to achieve a resolution, notably by the United Nations.

The provisional reference the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) is currently always used in relations involving states which do not recognise the constitutional name, Republic of Macedonia. Nevertheless, all United Nations member-states, and the UN as a whole, have agreed to accept any final agreement resulting from negotiations between the two countries. The ongoing dispute has not prevented the two countries from enjoying close trade links and investment levels (especially from Greece), but it has generated a great deal of political and academic debate on both sides.

Really sorry for going off topic, I hope I explained myself..

jnfernal · Post by **jnfernal** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:06 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia

From Wikipedia (just to name one and make a small research):

However, most United Nations member countries have abandoned the provisional reference and have recognised the country as the Republic of Macedonia instead. These include four of the five permanent UN Security Council members—the United States,[74] Russia, United Kingdom and the People's Republic of China; several members of the European Union such as Bulgaria, Poland, and Slovenia; and over 100 other UN members.[

Seems that there's not my country only...

jnfernal · Post by **jnfernal** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:12 pm

"I suggest you made a more thorough research on those things before you type them in public"

Well...if you want I can scan some road maps from IItaly, France, Spain or even India, Nepal, Thailand, Malaysia....strange enough they call that region "Macedonia"

but maybe my research is not very well done

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:05 pm

Well, thank you for good words for us Greeks. I must tell you that there no exceptions here. All of us are as you described. I'm surprised you even visited us twice. One time should have been enough.

There was indeed much hatred and hysteria in my words above that perfectly justifies your point. To hell with all the inaccuracies and the carelessness, we're talking about burning hatred here, enough to start a war and explode the whole forum - very kind of you that you pointed it out so colourfully, maybe now there is hope...

...

You seem to ignore something: There wasn't an election about the name - it wasn't a who gets the most votes wins thing. So, it doesn't matter if x countries use the constitutional name and x-10 countries don't. I also read, while doing my homework, that Italy is among the countries that use the name FYROM for ALL official purposes, so probably your info on the topic needs to be updated a bit. There's also a list of international organizations who use the same policy. The list you found on wikipedia is nice and quite informative, but you should read it more carefully and less selectively next time. Random maps you may have found on the internet don't mean much either and don't necessarily prove something.

It doesn't have to do whether it will make me a 'happy child' or not..I only asked you to correct the name, I didn't imply that I would delete your post or anything like that, and even if you still believed that whatever name you would use it wouldnt make any difference because it wasn't so important to you, you could have shown some respect if you added the other name as well without necessarily having to delete/edit yours when I asked you to do it. But you just didn't care to do it.

Edit: I replied to a post that got about 80% deleted. Unfortunately, I was fast enough to read it in its entirety, hence my reply.

Post by **DaN** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:56 pm

Huh? Hilfe!

Anyone care to break down the territorial issue into one simple sentence? I want to publish jnfernal's article on the site, but not at the price of a 3rd World War

GJ · Post by GJ » Sat May 14, 2011 12:30 am

I thought I'd handled that with my horribly smegmatic picture of Lappland (and other regions) which like Macedonia happens to reside in more than one nation currently. Then there's Finnmark fylke in current Norway (as opposed to future Norway)... which may count as a part of the Laponian Empire too...

Err... the wine does it's job. But nationalism still sucks.

GJ · Post by GJ » Sat May 14, 2011 12:32 am

New York. Fucking blasphemy it is!

jnfernal · Post by **jnfernal** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:10 am

Well, ok, no problem, you can edit my article and put FYROM instead of Macedonia if this may lead to this kind of problems with people here in the forum. There are sensitive topics that can not be debated here, this is not the place where to talk about politic or international relationship.

Thanx again to Dan for the nice opportunity, he has been so kind

...and I hope this can be only the first of many dossier that can analyze the story of the lesser known scenes. Those bands, those people deserve it: they made much more effort compared to bands in "luckier" countries and it would be a pity if their name will be buried forever in the sands of time.

Helstar · Post by **Helstar** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:36 am

Ok the lists of the bands of these obscure scenes are really interesting, but the rest is really hilarious

I thought that certain reactions would happen only with personal insults

? oh well.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Sat May 14, 2011 7:26 am

DaN wrote:Anyone care to break down the territorial issue into one simple sentence?

To put it very very simple, not all countries and international organizations have recognized the constitutional name of the country, which is Republic of Macedonia. Negotiations involving states that do not recognize it the name former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) is used. The dispute has not been resolved yet.

Black Axe · Post by **Black Axe** » Sat May 14, 2011 11:36 am

But let's just call it Macedonia. 'Cause otherwise I don't know what the hell it's about.

Both names end with Macedonia, thus being the only not really confusing option that both parties understand.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:46 pm

No, sorry, we can't call it 'Macedonia' just because it confuses you.

MassOfKthulu · Post by **MassOfKthulu** » Sat May 14, 2011 3:05 pm

funny how nationalism only applies to people when it screws their own assholes huh.I suppose people have more serious things to do,Princess Harrieta and eurovision and all

Vaggelis · Post by **Vaggelis** » Sat May 14, 2011 6:01 pm

MassOfKthulu wrote:funny how nationalism only applies to people when it screws their own assholes huh.I suppose people have more serious things to do,Princess Harrieta and eurovision and all

True!

Greece isn't Switzerland or Sweden.Greece lives in a bad bad neighboorhood.

Anyway back on topic.I think instead of Albanian metal(i told my opinion about several bands).I think Dan you should make a Soviet/Russian Metal special.There's too many bands hiding from people.

HOPO,KONTRAKT,AUDRONASOS,SVARAS 409,T.O.K,UDAR,KAPELLA,TORNADO,OTRAZENIJE,BELADONNA,PIONER,GOROD DIT,AZIMUT,KAPELLA,KVADRATAS are some of the soviet treasures out there that are the best.The scene is endless believe me.

Dan waiting for your answer about Sovjet metal.