the "Real Metal' term....

big mouth · Post by **big mouth** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:06 pm

It appears to me that the term I've coined first a few years with Snakepit (I was so tired to see that 'true metal' term used for bullshit / false Metal bands!) , 'Real Metal', is starting to get used more and more... am I right or wrong?
It might even end of Wikipedia at the end of the day!

Haha!!!

I guess 'the danger' now is to see it used by people who still haven't understood (and never will) what is Real Metal?!

Ra Pariah · Post by **Ra Pariah** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:48 pm

I am a big Darkthrone fan and and I can assure that Fenriz has adopted the term, as he has composed a song "Church of Real Metal. \m/

GJ · Post by GJ » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:15 pm

I believe the "True" and "Real" Metal can used in different ways. All of them bearing a certain relation or serving as descpription to something that's deeply rooted in the earlier history of Heavy Metal in one or many ways. It may be in a strictly musical or in a wider sense, including lyrics, cover art, clothes and accessories, cultural generalisations, ideologies, attitudes and so on.

In the long term there are probably of no use trying to coin terms and try to protect them from being used in the "wrong" sense. But within a limited subcultural situation (like this forum) it probably is useful and maybe nessesary to use them anyway since they serve a purpose in the day to day discussion. But of course it's also important to keep debating and discussing all terms, hopefully in order to come to some sort of agreement about their significance and limitations. Then again, the meaning of a certain word or term probably is bound to change over time anyway.

(I realize I haven't really got the ability to talk about stuff like this due to my limited grasp of the English language. I hope at least I made some sense.)

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:38 pm

Those who listen to true/real/trad metal know what it exactly means... And those who don't will never understand this point, so, I don't really care about all those terms.

Xstroyer · Post by **Xstroyer** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:08 pm

"Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. If Heavy Metal strays too far from the sounds of those three bands, it starts no longer to be Heavy Metal."

So it is said by Howie Bentley (Cauldron Born) and I can't disagree.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:53 am

J.K. wrote:Those who listen to true/real/trad metal know what it exactly means... And those who don't will never understand this point, so, I don't really care about all those terms.

"Traditional" and "true" or "real" are two different things.

Traditional refers to more of a style or sub-genre characteristic.

For example, I can’t see someone describing a Thrash album using the term "traditional".

Either way, this thread is probably the epitome of Metal nerdery and elitism. haha...

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:57 am

Xstroyer wrote:"Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. If Heavy Metal strays too far from the sounds of those three bands, it starts no longer to be Heavy Metal."

So it is said by Howie Bentley (Cauldron Born) and I can't disagree.

Not to sound offensive, because I know the guy posts here every once in a while, but since when do the statements made by members of a band formed in the mid 90's become any bit creditable?

big mouth · Post by **big mouth** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:19 am

Either way, this thread is probably the epitome of Metal nerdery and elitism. haha...

Possibly!!!! Haha!!! I thought it would be cool to get opinions on this...

great_knuthulhu · Post by **great_knuthulhu** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:13 am

Avenger wrote:
Xstroyer wrote:"Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. If Heavy Metal strays too far from the sounds of those three bands, it starts no longer to be Heavy Metal."

So it is said by Howie Bentley (Cauldron Born) and I can't disagree.
Not to sound offensive, because I know the guy posts here every once in a while, but since when do the statements made by members of a band formed in the mid 90's become any bit creditable?

Since they make sense? It's not very accurate, but it's a statement I agree with at least in part.

Since when did attacking the debater instead of what he says become an accepted form of debate?

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:10 pm

Avenger wrote:
Either way, this thread is probably the epitome of Metal nerdery and elitism. haha...

That will be the final word for me.

Have a good debate!

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:15 am

great_knuthulhu wrote:
Avenger wrote:
Xstroyer wrote:"Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. If Heavy Metal strays too far from the sounds of those three bands, it starts no longer to be Heavy Metal."

So it is said by Howie Bentley (Cauldron Born) and I can't disagree.
Not to sound offensive, because I know the guy posts here every once in a while, but since when do the statements made by members of a band formed in the mid 90's become any bit creditable?
Since they make sense? It's not very accurate, but it's a statement I agree with at least in part.

Since when did attacking the debater instead of what he says become an accepted form of debate?

I'm not attacking the debater; I'm questioning the "tRoOnEsS" if you will, about the origins of that statement.

That statement can also mean two different things in my opinion. One being that the label of "Heavy Metal" is implemented as a form of "true" Metal. The second being only that it's referring to "Heavy Metal" as a specific sub-genre category.

In the case of the second I would agree to some extent.

Xstroyer · Post by **Xstroyer** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:26 am

Avenger wrote:
Xstroyer wrote:"Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. If Heavy Metal strays too far from the sounds of those three bands, it starts no longer to be Heavy Metal."

So it is said by Howie Bentley (Cauldron Born) and I can't disagree.
Not to sound offensive, because I know the guy posts here every once in a while, but since when do the statements made by members of a band formed in the mid 90's become any bit creditable?

No offense at all but "true metal" is a 90s term after all, so why shouldn't a 90s band's statement cannot become creditable?
Personally, I don't care if the statement comes from a 90s band, 80s band or whatever, I just said that I agree with this specific statement.
In the 80s there were no "true" metal, just Heavy Metal. So for me there is Heavy Metal (even as a sub-genre if you like) and false metal. After all so it is said by Manowar since 1983 ("Death to false metal") if you like an older statement.

To conclude, as it is written before: "Either way, this thread is probably the epitome of Metal nerdery and elitism."

big mouth · Post by **big mouth** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:18 am

To conclude, as it is written before: "Either way, this thread is probably the epitome of Metal nerdery and elitism."

Just recall who started this thread!

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:51 am

Xstroyer wrote:
Avenger wrote:
Xstroyer wrote:"Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. If Heavy Metal strays too far from the sounds of those three bands, it starts no longer to be Heavy Metal."

So it is said by Howie Bentley (Cauldron Born) and I can't disagree.
Not to sound offensive, because I know the guy posts here every once in a while, but since when do the statements made by members of a band formed in the mid 90's become any bit creditable?
No offense at all but "true metal" is a 90s term after all, so why shouldn't a 90s band's statement cannot become creditable?
Personally, I don't care if the statement comes from a 90s band, 80s band or whatever, I just said that I agree with this specific statement.
In the 80s there were no "true" metal, just Heavy Metal. So for me there is Heavy Metal (even as a sub-genre if you like) and false metal. After all so it is said by Manowar since 1983 ("Death to false metal") if you like an older statement.

To conclude, as it is written before: "Either way, this thread is probably the epitome of Metal nerdery and elitism."

Because terms change?

For example, I don't see Running Wild being called "Black Metal" anymore these days.

MEXDefenderOfSteel · Post by **MEXDefenderOfSteel** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:04 am

i like using more the term real metal with people that i know i can discuss about HM, kind of distinguishing a "metal" dude from a serious HM fan. like:

-real metal fan:man!you got to listen to this super bomb doom metal band!
-"metal" dude: oh yea? they sound like (insert your gothic scandinavian 90s darkish band)
-real metal fan: no dumbass! they play real metal! like candlemass!you idiot!