Sharing Rare Records

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:16 pm

If a record "lose is interest" by being KNOWN/SHARED, then maybe it was crappy from the beginning? It seems -I maybe wrong- that here some guys think that the record is better when he is less known... That sounds crazy to me.

I also don't believe in tones of HIDDEN masterpieces. Cause, what defines a masterpiece (for me) is also the INFLUENCE that it had on other records. So if it is "mega-rare-secret-unknown", it can't be influent...

In conclusion... THE WORLD IS TOO FUCKING CRAZY FOR ME:

Lama · Post by **Lama** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:59 pm

After reading the whole thread I'm terribly pissed that a certain POISON IDEA-LP still isn't in my collection...

Someone can share it?

khiijol · Post by **khiijol** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:18 pm

Lama wrote:After reading the whole thread I'm terribly pissed that a certain POISON IDEA-LP still isn't in my collection...

Someone can share it?

great record

this reminds me of a debate i have all the time at my job... i work in librarianship/historical preservation, so basically its my job to locate, find, digitize and catalog rare items such as this:

http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki/images/e/ed ... aratus.pdf

which is a correspondence from one of Bell's competitors regarding the telephone a month before bell filed for his patent

now, our publications department hates that we do this, but since they don't own the IP to stuff like this, we're in the clear. however, our organization was founded in 1884, and we have tons of publications done by the AIEE journals before the 1920s that are in the public domain which we can't post. even though many of these documents are technical literature that have been obsolete for about 100 years, we still cant post them because publications department thinks that some day they might make some money off of them. since they're a much bigger operation than we are, they pull rank and win every time

what do you guys think of scenarios like this? i know its obviously not a 1:1 parallel with metal as many of the factors are different, but i think its more or less the same argument

lunaboy · Post by **lunaboy** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:35 pm

All I know that Metal is just small part of whole music scene and if I for example collected 50s/60s/70s Garage/Fuzz/Rockabilly/Psych/Whatever music on vinyl there were loads(I mean 1000s) of these "How the Hell It Sounds?" bands.

LethylSteel · Post by **LethylSteel** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:41 pm

Rockadelic wrote:Why do people spend 100's and even 1,000's of dollars on a record?

1) To own a rare item as well as the music on it
2) To play Robin Hood and give the music out for free
3) As an investment with the hopes of it becoming more valuable
4) To horde music and live as a lonely fuckard for eternity

According to the fact that 80% of the so called "collectors" store their records still sealed and proudly announce it in the public it's surely point # 3! For most of them I wouldn't even put my hand into the fire that are indeed Metal fans...as quickly as they sell their once praised vinyls 3 years later eh? Right answer?

Eskew Reeder · Post by **Eskew Reeder** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:20 pm

The bottom line is that there are a few ways to hear rare and obscure records of any genre.

1) You can spend the time and money to go out and search for them. This entails a lot of research, driving, hotel bills, hard work and persistance. It involves buying lots of crap looking for that rare gem and when it's all said in done you will have spent lots of cash.

2) You can be a top end collector who spends large quantities of cash to buy the rare records from top end dealers and other collectors. Most of these people have close relationships with these dealers and do indeed get to hear clips of an LP before spending big bucks on it.

3) You can be a friend of #1 & #2 and have a relationship with them that leads them to share their finds/collection with you.

4) You can spend no time, effort or money beyond relying on other collectors(usually those described above in #1 & #2) to upload it for free so you can hear it. And apparently if these people won't oblige and share what they have worked for or spent money to obtain, they will be called selfish assholes by these beggars of free music.

Of those four I know which one I think is the asshole.

Here are some facts for you guys to ponder.....

If not for people like DoomedPlanet Rob or Glockose John or Jim C., a great number of these "rare records" would never have seen the light of day or be known by any of you, especially folks overseas. They are the ones who put in the time and effort to find them, get quantity when possible, and make them available to collectors all over the world.

I know all three of these guys well and I know that they are all very successful people in their jobs and lives outside of the record game. The same hard work that made them successful in the business world is what made them successful in dealing/collecting/re-issuing records. And make no mistake, when it comes to discovering U.S. metal, these guys are at the top of the heap.

Of course they love the music, but their time is valuable and it would be insane for anyone to expect someone to put in the work they do and then give away the music they unearthed for free.....maybe in some communist/socialist Gum Drop Island secret mind garden this happens, but not in real life.

As a record dealer my philosophy is that the collector who buys an LP from me has the option to do whatever they want with it, but for me, as the seller, to sell a record for $1,000 and then post it up for the world to have for free is just an unethical business practice......and this IS a business that runs on money, not on having some nameless, faceless dude in Greece clicking a button and getting to hear what I just worked my ass off for.

Those who run businesses or have successful careers understand this.

And those who don't understand this are probably not in a position to buy a record for big bucks with the intent of sharing it with the world.

Eskew Reeder · Post by **Eskew Reeder** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:31 pm

Darksider wrote:
Rockadelic wrote:Why do people spend 100's and even 1,000's of dollars on a record?

1) To own a rare item as well as the music on it
2) To play Robin Hood and give the music out for free
3) As an investment with the hopes of it becoming more valuable
4) To horde music and live as a lonely fuckard for eternity

According to the fact that 80% of the so called "collectors" store their records still sealed and proudly announce it in the public it's surely point # 3! For most of them I wouldn't even put my hand into the fire that are indeed Metal fans...as quickly as they sell their once praised vinyls 3 years later eh? Right answer?

Truth is I've known people who were #1, #3 and #4.

Haven't met #2 yet.

Trigger · Post by **Trigger** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:03 pm

Fancy words but fitting better in antiques.com forum or anything similar.You are only talking about material,what the opposite side has posted is about music,most people here arn't mere collectors,they are fans also,a meaning that's lost for you being in the "business".Noone is begging here and I'm pretty sure you've asked things for free yourself,be it a glass of water or anything else.I have to reiterate that I don't do downloading that much and all I do started a year ago or so.I buy records,I buy CDs(YES,this is music also musiclovers),I go to shows and this is the ONE and ONLY way to support a band.Noone asked you to share your vinyl,they asked for a link to listen to it.NOONE obliged you to share the link,they only asked.I'm not smart enough to buy anything in sight without listening to it first.Somehow this is all wrong for you so I overlook.As for the touching storis about blood,sweat and tears,please,I just had a huge meal....This is true,but hey,others did the same around Europe,Australia etc etc when these guys learned about metal in these countries.As for the availability it wasn't for free either.There are 2 opposing opinions here,therefor the length of the discussion,but you fail to realise that just because you are the greatest record collector that ever saw the light of day (what a title!) doesn't make you correct and we,the vile ones can resist with a different opinion which comes from our hearts and feelings (oops,free items,my bad).Not everything in life is business and this is not life,this is your attitude.You choose it,feel free,it's not how things run in life though.I give things for free,I get for free,if we ruin your business,not my fault,bad estimation.All that is said here though are musically oriented and this is something we love so we do not trade.Yes,romantic but I'm not 50 yet,so I can be.As for collecting,I'd rather collect baseball cards and look at them,I tend to hear my music and getting feedback from those who produce it is enough for me.Sellers never helped the scene anyway.And I know bands that never got involved with labels and still haven't regret it because of that,you never owned the music,you owned the rights to sell it.

Eskew Reeder · Post by **Eskew Reeder** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:13 pm

Trigger wrote:Fancy words but fitting better in antiques.com forum or anything similar.You are only talking about material,what the opposite side has posted is about music,most people here arn't mere collectors,they are fans also,a meaning that's lost for you being in the "business".Noone is begging here and I'm pretty sure you've asked things for free yourself,be it a glass of water or anything else.I have to reiterate that I don't do downloading that much and all I do started a year ago or so.I buy records,I buy CDs(YES,this is music also musiclovers),I go to shows and this is the ONE and ONLY way to support a band.Noone asked you to share your vinyl,they asked for a link to listen to it.NOONE obliged you to share the link,they only asked.I'm not smart enough to buy anything in sight without listening to it first.Somehow this is all wrong for you so I overlook.As for the touching storis about blood,sweat and tears,please,I just had a huge meal....This is true,but hey,others did the same around Europe,Australia etc etc when these guys learned about metal in these countries.As for the availability it wasn't for free either.There are 2 opposing opinions here,therefor the length of the discussion,but you fail to realise that just because you are the greatest record collector that ever saw the light of day (what a title!) doesn't make you correct and we,the vile ones can resist with a different opinion which comes from our hearts and feelings (oops,free items,my bad).Not everything in life is business and this is not life,this is your attitude.You choose it,feel free,it's not how things run in life though.I give things for free,I get for free,if we ruin your business,not my fault,bad estimation.All that is said here though are musically oriented and this is something we love so we do not trade.Yes,romantic but I'm not 50 yet,so I can be.As for collecting,I'd rather collect baseball cards and look at them,I tend to hear my music and getting feedback from those who produce it is enough for me.Sellers never helped the scene anyway.And I know bands that never got involved with labels and still haven't regret it because of that,you never owned the music,you owned the rights to sell it.

Thank you for proving my point.

Trigger · Post by **Trigger** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:25 pm

Thanks in return for the same reason,you still don't seem to understand.We're talking about two totally different things.

Eskew Reeder · Post by **Eskew Reeder** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:31 pm

Trigger wrote:Thanks in return for the same reason,you still don't seem to understand.We're talking about two totally different things.

The problem is I do understand......I'm talking about people who expect others to share their rare records and call them selfish assholes or state that the record must suck/doesn't exist when they don't....period.

You can talk about baseball cards, antiques, dinner, capitalism, politics, seeing live bands, record labels, etc. all you want.....I'm sticking to the above topic.

NOW SEND ME FREE STUFF!!!!!

LethylSteel · Post by **LethylSteel** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:40 pm

Rockadelic wrote: 4) You can spend no time, effort or money beyond relying on other collectors(usually those described above in #1 & #2) to upload it for free so you can hear it. And apparently if these people won't oblige and share what they have worked for or spent money to obtain, they will be called selfish assholes by these beggars of free music.

And this the point that I couldn't have said better myself. Don't want to insult anyone but truth is that most of the people who complain here wouldn't be able to hear ANYTHING of the private records stuff if there wouldn't be a few user friendly collectors who rip their stuff or let it rip by anyone and put it up on the net. If they would stop doing that alot of people would get a problem, but even if you decide to rip a record that you've paid a small fortune for there will be always any voices yelling "Can't you rip with a higher bitrate?!!!" That's what I call unthankful...

And for those who still don't understand (and prohably never ever bought a record themselves) just imagine, you bought a bus ticket from your last cash that cost you 100 $ (City you wanna go to is far away

). You're waiting at the bus stop 2 hours, a poor guy comes along "Can I have your ticket?"
"SURE, take it, it doesn't matters to me!"

And then you start searching for empty beer bottles to get a few Cents to survive at least the next week while the poor beggar asked you angry from inside the bus "Why not a 1st class ticket???!!!"

Cochino · Post by **Cochino** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:58 pm

Rockadelic wrote:
Trigger wrote:Thanks in return for the same reason,you still don't seem to understand.We're talking about two totally different things.
The problem is I do understand......I'm talking about people who expect others to share their rare records and call them selfish assholes or state that the record must suck/doesn't exist when they don't....period.

You can talk about baseball cards, antiques, dinner, capitalism, politics, seeing live bands, record labels, etc. all you want.....I'm sticking to the above topic.

NOW SEND ME FREE STUFF!!!!!

You still don't understand, it seems. Nobody's asking you to send them their stuff. Since you like stupid comparissions, if someone's at your house and asks you to play certain LP, would you say no if it's rare and costed you a lot to get it? People just want to listen to it, not take it from you. This forum is not the Metal Archives forum where there are a lot of 12 year old kids that are into Metal today and into something totally different tomorrow so you don't have to worry about that. All the users here spent a high percentage of their income in records, you can be sure of that. Since people live in different countries with different economic realities (there's quite a few great Greek collectors here that might have to reduce their record purchases during this times), different salaries, etc. that might not be able to spend big bucks on a record just like that. I know I have to be picky about what I get because I just can't afford to throw cash away in a record I don't like. Besides the price thing, there's also the amount of copies available. If only 20 copies of a record are available, then you think only 20 people should listen to that record? You think no one else is worthy to listen to it just 'cause he didn't come across any of those 20 copies?
Sure, you can say "life's tough" and that you're not a hippie, Robin Hood, a communist or whatever and you do not musical wellfare, that's fine. But if you can help some fellow collector to listen to an album that's hard to get without any major effort and you choose not to because you payed 1000 bucks for it or you had to climb the Everest to get it and you're not into that commie "share for free" thing then yes, I'd keep calling you a selfish asshole because I can't see any good argument against sharing it with someone else except that "it's mine and I do whatever I want with it" attitude which you are entitled to, but it doesn't stop being selfish.
Also, since you seem to hate free things so much, would you do a dub or a rip if we give you some money?

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:58 pm

You're making good points Trigger, but Rockadelic just can't grasp it. Also, as has been said repeatedly, no one is asking for anyone to give them a record for free, fuck's sake why keep saying that!? Also like has been said it's not about thinking you HAVE to let people listen, but people can ask.

Last year I bought the SHORES OF EVENING LP, it's crap non-metal with a very promising cover, what I did when I got it was rip it and put it up here so others could listen, as far as I know my rip was the first one done, now it's up on Strappado etc., whatever. What I didn't do is try hype it up or keep it hidden in hopes of making a profit. Music is the thing that counts, fuck your business attitude.

Trigger · Post by **Trigger** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:02 pm

Very unsuccessful example I have to say,couldn't be more unsuccessful.I can't understand though why you get confused and manipulated.Find me the post were someone complains for not sharing a link(ok,metaloren is exepted

).All the critiquing was about the attitude and then try to see who started whining.Since this was Rocadelic's personal was against me,I never claimed any of your slander above,this is pure misleading statements. don't care if a record exists,if it doesn't I don't know about it,I collect BECAUSE of music itself and the music I like and it will be the music that I'll be after but I have reconciled with the idea that some of them I'll never own and I don't care.I've had a couple of requests in the specific thread in the forum as everyone else,didn't force anyone to share,can't see anything wrong.That's why we say about different things...