Pentagram- Be Forewarned

Lama · Post by **Lama** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:49 am

daniel wrote:The 'raw' CD-R version of 'Day of Reckoning' you mentioned Lama is actually a rip of the original LP - stuff was re-recorded and remixed for the Peaceville reissue.

Aha! I wasn't aware of that. Sorry! I don't have the original vinyl. Only heard he debut on vinyl.

GJ · Post by GJ » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:19 pm

Already having both s/t and DoR on vinyl I still bought them on CD when Peaceville released them and from what I remember they both sounded very weird and hollow comparing to the crushing compact power of the originals (was it just DoR?). Did Hasselvander tape over the drums out of some ego aspects? To my mind he would have been better off keeping his "talents" to drumming in Raven. Rather than dragging this drugged-out junkie Bob into the studio to slur out Hassevander's "solo stuff" and insensitively handled Pentagram oldies (or am I too harsh on him here?).

Lama · Post by **Lama** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:51 pm

GJ wrote:Already having both s/t and DoR on vinyl I still bought them on CD when Peaceville released them and from what I remember they both sounded very weird and hollow comparing to the crushing compact power of the originals (was it just DoR?). Did Hasselvander tape over the drums out of some ego aspects? To my mind he would have been better off keeping his "talents" to drumming in Raven. Rather than dragging this drugged-out junkie Bob into the studio to slur out Hassevander's "solo stuff" and insensitively handled Pentagram oldies (or am I too harsh on him here?).

Well, they're still cd's...the sound is always 'worse' than a quality vinyl pressing, don't you think?

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:13 pm

Lama wrote:
mordred wrote:Bit surprised to hear Hellhound was thought of as a second rate label. I mean, releases like "Die Healing", "Yet so Far", "Destruction of the Void"... wasn't that considered good doom back then?
In the 90's doom metal equalled "Black Sabbath rip off" or "slow, boring crap" according to most big metal magazines. Released on Hellhound or not. Apart from a small diehard fanbase, nobody was interested in doom bands, because they all got bad reviews. Off course the albums you mentioned are great, but only a few people were aware of that.

Exactly. I remember people intentionally AVOIDING releases on Hellhound because they knew the album would be "more slow, boring crap". Sad but true.

I'm not sure exactly when Doom finally started to get more respect here in the US. It may have coincided with the stoner scene getting popular in the late 90s. I also recall that Katatonia developed a stronger buzz around the time they released 'discouraged ones'. Any thoughts? Maybe I'll try to dig through some old reviews/lists this weekend and see if I can figure out when folks started taking doom seriously in this country.

GJ · Post by GJ » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:26 pm

nightsblood wrote:I remember people intentionally AVOIDING releases on Hellhound because they knew the album would be "more slow, boring crap". Sad but true.

To me Hellhound released some rather boring stuff (although I sought them out rather than avoiding them) - I never got into Wretched, Unorthodox, Vortex of Insanity for example. Saint Vitus and Internal Void were the great exceptions. As for Count Raven I enjoyed them more back then than I do today, I guess there were less doom to choose from... Penance I've never heard

and I only recently have begun to collect the back catalogue of Revelation (bought Salvation's Answer on vinyl early on though).

agvd · Post by **agvd** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:56 pm

GJ wrote: Did Hasselvander tape over the drums out of some ego aspects?

Sad, but true. Even worse is that supposedly the master with Rose's drumming is no more.
Speaking of underappreciated Hellhound bands, Year Zero released two solid CDs for the label. A lot more aggressive and interesting than the samey Maryland doom bands (Iron Man being the exception) they were pumping out back then.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:51 pm

It's more than the drumming, for instance listen to 'Broken Vows', there is no acoustic guitar audible on the reissue, while it is quite clear on the original

Cochino · Post by **Cochino** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:27 pm

Anybody knows where can I check the original mixes of the self titled album and Day Of Reckoning? I've only heard the Peaceville releases and I'd like to listen to the other versions, since pretty much everybody agrees they're superior.

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:56 pm

Interesting on the drum re-do's, that is a shame. Sometime I'll hafta sit down and play them side-by-side to see how the orig and reissues compare.

Hellhound did indeed release some samey, subpar stuff, but show me a label that hasn't

I never understood how Internal Void could writing the incredible 'War Horse' but not have another good song on that album IMO

Aside from Pentagram, Maryland Doom has never really 'done it' for me. To be fair, I haven't listened to a lot of the bands beyond maybe a few songs, and they were never quite good enough to spark my interest further. Most of them seem to go for a very basic, plain sound that follows the pattern of early The Obsessed or Trouble, whereas I tend to prefer doom with a grander, more epic vibe, like Candlemass, early Solitude Aeturnus, etc, OR bands with a more creepy-sinister vibe, like Death-Row Era Pentagram, Saint Vitus with Reagers, Requiem (Italy), etc.

To be fair, I should give some of the Maryland acts another chance- another dusty corner of the metal underground I keep meaning to re-visit and never get around to

Any recommendations on where to start

The only 'recent' release I've heard in full is Iron Man's 'I Have Returned', about half of which I liked, half was so-so (the 1st 3 tracks and the closer being my favorites). I know SKR has put out a bunch of stuff in this vein, but I get the sense that some of these bands changed styles over time (e.g., Iron Man), so any thoughts on what's good what's-not are appreciated

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:40 pm

Epic or creepy wasn't really what the Maryland scene was about

unfortunately for you.

Have to recommend Revelations' 'Never Comes Silence' and '...Yet So Far', they are both widely progressive though, but I love them.

The '...Yet So Far' line-up doing 'Long After Midnight':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_kNFB2oRnY

Morning Sun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pztZbfoCUJk

Trust me the album versions sound way better.

The band Unorthodox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBivo-1V ... playnext=1

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:48 pm

Cochino I'm uploading a rip of 'Day of Reckoning' to Megaupload and will PM you the link ok. If it's something that could be uploaded to the MP3 section on this site then I'd make another rip of my own vinyl as the CD-R rip I'm now uploading isn't of as high a quality as it could be.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:52 pm

GJ, you need 'Parallel Corners' by Penance

Check out these masterpieces!

'Words Not Deeds':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlE-G-C ... re=related

'Reflections', probably my favourite when it gets going
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSBypcS- ... re=related

'Crosses':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MglXY9BsFyM

Black Axe · Post by **Black Axe** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:05 pm

Count Raven (from High On Infinity, 1994): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpHPTNs3dCs

Iron Man (from The Passage, 1994): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwXr1uBgkHo

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:08 pm

COol, checking out youtube links now...

Cochino · Post by **Cochino** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:42 am

Thanks a lot for that rip Daniel. I'll check it out in the next few days and give feedback. Maybe it'll change my mind about Day Of Reckoning which was good but a bit disappointing after the first album.