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What do you usually expect of a band / album prior hearing it or buying it? Which standards should album fulfill in order to end in your collection, being played regularly and being actually enjoyed?

For example, one likes Metal straight, raw and not necessarily well played.

I for one underline these standards in following order: originality, weirdness, playing know-how (techiness), certain amount of dissonances in music, etc. . Some albums can fulfill a lot of criteria at once, others one or two only. In some cases the standards can be excluding, i.e. originality does not always include techiness or vice versa.

I wonder what standards MHs have already set, for I am sure they had set them. I intend to set an unofficial list of album standards in HM in general differences between subgenres notwithstanding. I guess each subgenre also has its own set of criteria, but here I refer to the general ones.

You may also add case sensitive examples, that is: I want certain band to sound this way, this way and this way or like this, like that, like whatnot.

I go with Honesty, Passion, Vision.

Honesty means this isn't just cookie-cutter metal 'let's emulate our favourite bands' nor is it theatrical without having any truth or deeper aesthetic in it. It must come from the heart. It might seem like medieval fantasy, but it must mean something more than just fairytales, or gore lyrics, or satan worshipping.

Passion means that the material is performed with zest, ability and desire. No two ways about it. When you hear great material done in a limp way you know someone is doing an academic take on heavy metal. I want to see SWEAT.

Vision means that all this contributes to something more than the sum of the parts. That it goes towards a bigger idea, usually a 'good' idea (I'm not much for nihilistic metal. Seriously, I'm almost a white metaller without being a christian) one that someone honestly hopes will make the listener a better person. That which excerts the will and strengthens resolve. That is Heavy Metal for me. This leaves out a lot of 'READY TO PARTY! WOO! BEERS!' type of material, but I don't mind, I don't listen to that stuff much anyway.

For technothrash I go with DISCIPLINE, REASON and INTENSITY instead

The most important thing about music I like is the sound/production.
Let's do some math:
1. Great songs + Clean production = Bad Album
2. Great songs + Raw production = Good album
3. Bad songs + Raw production = Bad but more enjoyable than 1.
4. Bad songs + Clean production = Burn this crap

I'll give an example:
Lords Of The Crimson Alliance: great songs, but the sound totally ruins it. Never heard such awful drums in my life! = Bad album

Some people will probably not understand this. But music = sound!

Your math boggles the mind.

Really depends on the mood i'm in each time. And believe me, my mood changes quite often...I mean on one moment TANGERINE DREAM can be the godliest band on earth and on the other MORBID ANGEL's "Blessed..." can crush anything, including my all-time favorite bands. What I want to say is that i don't have a particular criteria/rule that can be applied anyplace anytime, i don't know why this happens, but this is how i feel.

On the other hand, some things are of greater importance than others: originality, passion, ''right'' influences. That doesn't mean that i always prefer an original band to a less original one, i will listen mostly to the band that has something more to tell to my heart, my soul and my way of thinking. Of course, i will admit (or at least i'll try to) the band that has features like the ones we mentioned before (honesty, tech, passion, originality) BUT that doesn't necessarily mean that i will listen to it on MY free time when i'm alone at home- i'm pretty sure this has happened to many of you, so probably you know what i mean.

Simply put, i listen to the bands i like most whatever their musical attitude is.

ION BRITTON wrote: On the other hand, some things are of greater importance than others: originality, passion, ''right'' influences. That doesn't mean that i always prefer an original band to a less original one, i will listen mostly to the band that has something more to tell to my heart, my soul and my way of thinking. Of course, i will admit (or at least i'll try to) the band that has features like the ones we mentioned before (honesty, tech, passion, originality) BUT that doesn't necessarily mean that i will listen to it on MY free time when i'm alone at home- i'm pretty sure this has happened to many of you, so probably you know what i mean.

You see so there are some standards set, even when only on the other hand.

ION BRITTON wrote: Simply put, i listen to the bands i like most whatever their musical attitude is.

When you are to check new band you use the bands you like as the standards, don't you.

Honestly John, I thought that your chief "principle" would be rawness (or maybe awkward brutality: Sodom - Obsessed By Cruelty, Sarcafago - INRI) Cheers!

Noisenik wrote:
When you are to check new band you use the bands you like as the standards, don't you.

Mostly yes, but not always. Sometimes i check a band just because of their name, of a song title, of the front cover or even because a photo of the band tells me something. Well, that's maybe because some of these things remind me a fave band, but that's not the rule as i told you (particularly on non-metal bands that i'm checking).Basically, it's the instict that guides me. Always. Almost.

Noisenik wrote: Honestly John, I thought that your chief "principle" would be rawness (or maybe awkward brutality: Sodom - Obsessed By Cruelty, Sarcafago - INRI) Cheers!

Well, that's partly correct. One thing i'm searching for on metal bands a tiny bit more is that "In your face and up your ass" attitude. Rawness, epicness, power are some other things as well. Basically, anything that sounds good enough to my ears is accepted. Anything from HEIR APPARENT's "One small voice" and RUSH's "Grace under pressure" to TYRANT's "Legions of the dead" and BEHERIT's "The oath of black blood" and from ASH RA TEMPEL's "Inventions for the electric guitar" to FIELD OF THE NEPHILIM's "Elizium"

1. Songwriting. It's where it's at really. And since we're talking Heavy Metal this means quality HEAVY riffing, powerful vocal melodies and a ripping guitar harmony or 2 to top it off.

2. Vocals are important as hell for me. I'm no musician and could never tell a genious guitarplayer from a half-decent one, so it's never been an issue. But vocals - with some character, intensity and soul - it can elevate even the most mundane music to great heights. Take BLACK DEATH for instance. The actual songwriting is pretty run of the mill, good quality standard riffing and all, but with a fucking BEAST like Siki Spacek in front of the mike they're monstrous. And SHOCK SPLIT + Andy Carter! And HOLY TERROR + Keith Dean! etc etc..

3. Originality can make or break some bands. While GLACIER, DANGER ZONE or SLANDER made incredible 10/10 albums with they did so on Metal songwriting skills alone without really needing much originality. They did it the hard way and obviously had the rare talent for it. If you're a step behind on #1 and #2, a little originality always helps. Now that doesn't necessarily mean weird/experimental/cutting edge. The small devilish details are mostly what gets me going. It's really hard to put it into words, just listen to HOLOCAUST's "No Mans Land" LP, LIGHT FORCE's "Battlezone" demo or CENTURIAN's "Cross and Black" LP you might understand what I'm talking about. Or HELVETETS PORT!

I could add production and tightness to the list, but I never seem to distinguish if the "raw" (bad?) sounding albums crush because or despite of the production values.

Songwriting is important for me as well, don't get me wrong. But I HATE it when great songs are spoiled by a fuckin' lame and sterile production. It's frustrating! That's why production/sound is so important too me. I also admit that I was exaggerating a little in my first post

Dan, thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot the one of the major things I like in a metal song: THE ALMIGHTY RIFF!!!

tomas wrote:Dan, thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot the one of the major things I like in a metal song: THE ALMIGHTY RIFF!!!

Always #1. Always.

tomas wrote: 1. Great songs + Clean production = Bad Album
2. Great songs + Raw production = Good album
3. Bad songs + Raw production = Bad but more enjoyable than 1.
4. Bad songs + Clean production = Burn this crap

I agree with this. There is nothing more horrible than a modern production. Therefore, I simply cannot listen to nearly any new Heavy Metal album, because I get nervous after 3-4 songs...

Helm wrote:I go with Honesty, Passion, Vision.

thats really all i can boil it down to too... theres so many types of metal that it would be impossible to lay down exact guidelines for what is good and what is not

It has to be recorded prior to 1994 and it has to do something with speed / thrash

OK, for the other stuff:
As Helm wrote: Honesty, Passion, Vision. - The FEELING! Production is important, but it's very inferior to songwriting, at least a bit of originality / creativity (that's why I really don't like the 95% of 2007-wannabe-1987 thrash bands), and of course the lyrics (if listeting just to the music is 2D, then the lyric-experience is 3D, I say).

Anyhow, it's hard to name everything. What I don't like are the so called progressive (regressive!) tech bands which treats instruments like sport (instead of playing the guitar they "train" it) with totally soulless, artificial, yet technical etc. music, then the over-preachy stuff, the already mentioned retro thrashers without a vision, etc., etc.

Metal is grand!

roihlem wrote:

tomas wrote: 1. Great songs + Clean production = Bad Album
2. Great songs + Raw production = Good album
3. Bad songs + Raw production = Bad but more enjoyable than 1.
4. Bad songs + Clean production = Burn this crap

I agree with this. There is nothing more horrible than a modern production. Therefore, I simply cannot listen to nearly any new Heavy Metal album, because I get nervous after 3-4 songs...

Then tape it to a casette and I have a really worthless Blaupunkt for sale, I guarantee you the rawness all the way

sovdat wrote:
Then tape it to a casette and I have a really worthless Blaupunkt for sale, I guarantee you the rawness all the way

And make sure to use an oooooooooooooooooold tape