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Yesterday, I bought 2 Manowar LP's for a pretty good price at a record show ...

Louder than hell LP (with lyrics innersleeve)
The hell of steel LP

I checked popsike and saw many copies of the LOUDER ... coming from Greece; is there a bootleg pressing as well (like King Diamond's Spiders lullabye)?

no,its just that most copies were sold in Greece because of the big amount of manowar fans here plus LPs sold well still in Greece when louder came out,whereas most of europe had switched to CDs

it must definitely be boots, same as King Diamond Conspiracy with graveyard cover is every week on ebay from the same Greek seller, such as the Manowar LP, cannot be original....

really? i dont know i havent searcjed ebay too much for these,i am not interested,but concerning greek boots i would believe anything.too fucking bad.i cannot sell anything now on ebay if i put any rarities and the buyers see GREECE they would immediately think i just pressed bootleg copies or street child or whatever haha.oh well

Fils Du Metal wrote:it must definitely be boots, same as King Diamond Conspiracy with graveyard cover is every week on ebay from the same Greek seller, such as the Manowar LP, cannot be original....

Which seller?

My big problem with Greek sellers is, unless I know them and have good experiences with specific seller, I have a problem trusting their GRADING and to some extent packing ability. I've had serious problems in the past getting whipped copies from Greece when the seller said the condition is high. Do you disagree that this is a problem?

MassOfKthulu wrote:i cannot sell anything now on ebay if i put any rarities and the buyers see GREECE they would immediately think i just pressed bootleg copies or street child or whatever haha.oh well

N.W.O.O.F.G.M. wrote:
Which seller?

villainshadows

Louder than Hell is a bootleg!
I have said this again in another topic.
King Diamond-Spider's lullabue lp
Manowar-Louder than hell lp
Running Wild -Black Hand inn lp
Savatage-Handful of rain lp
King Diamond-Conspiracy (with the original cover) lp
Guns 'n' Roses- Live like suicide ep
Heavy Load-Full speed at high level

are ALL BOOTLEGS.

Buyers that are willing to pay big amount of money for any of them, should have been at least well informed and clever enough not to fall in some thief's trap.
If nobody would buy bootleg reissues even from the late 80's (and i hate to hear from younger people that bootlegs is a plague made in Greece cause this started in usa and Germany mostly) ,then there would be no problem.So buyers are to be blamed also.

Angelheart wrote:If nobody would buy bootleg reissues even from the late 80's (and i hate to hear from younger people that bootlegs is a plague made in Greece cause this started in usa and Germany mostly) ,then there would be no problem.So buyers are to be blamed also.

I don't agree with that at all. If the sellers would blatantly list such items as a bootleg instead of trying to be deceptive then I'm sure a lot of these buyers would avoid such sellers. It's the lack of knowledge from the buyer and the dishonesty of these greek sellers. Like I said before, you can yell and scream all you want that other countries bootleg items as well and that's fine, however, it's nowhere near the same extent of the greeks. Look for any CD on ebay for example and it will be sold AT LEAST at a 10:1 ratio of greeks selling the same bootlegs over sellers from any other countries.

Avenger wrote:

Angelheart wrote:If nobody would buy bootleg reissues even from the late 80's (and i hate to hear from younger people that bootlegs is a plague made in Greece cause this started in usa and Germany mostly) ,then there would be no problem.So buyers are to be blamed also.

I don't agree with that at all. If the sellers would blatantly list such items as a bootleg instead of trying to be deceptive then I'm sure a lot of these buyers would avoid such sellers. It's the lack of knowledge from the buyer and the dishonesty of these greek sellers. Like I said before, you can yell and scream all you want that other countries bootleg items as well and that's fine, however, it's nowhere near the same extent of the greeks. Look for any CD on ebay for example and it will be sold AT LEAST at a 10:1 ratio of greeks selling the same bootlegs over sellers from any other countries.

I didn't say that those sellers are not to blame.I said they are thieves.I have tried to prevent those sellers from selling in ebay or anywhere.What did u do by your side?
And i don't like your tone saying that i yell and scream.I don't like people like u telling bad things generally about Greece and their fans cause u are not in position to judge.Cause it seems every time u post that u try to underestimate the Greek metal scene because of some bad sellers.
Try to see the larger picture if u can.

Angelheart wrote:

Avenger wrote:

Angelheart wrote:If nobody would buy bootleg reissues even from the late 80's (and i hate to hear from younger people that bootlegs is a plague made in Greece cause this started in usa and Germany mostly) ,then there would be no problem.So buyers are to be blamed also.

I don't agree with that at all. If the sellers would blatantly list such items as a bootleg instead of trying to be deceptive then I'm sure a lot of these buyers would avoid such sellers. It's the lack of knowledge from the buyer and the dishonesty of these greek sellers. Like I said before, you can yell and scream all you want that other countries bootleg items as well and that's fine, however, it's nowhere near the same extent of the greeks. Look for any CD on ebay for example and it will be sold AT LEAST at a 10:1 ratio of greeks selling the same bootlegs over sellers from any other countries.

I didn't say that those sellers are not to blame.I said they are thieves.I have tried to prevent those sellers from selling in ebay or anywhere.What did u do by your side?
And i don't like your tone saying that i yell and scream.I don't like people like u telling bad things generally about Greece and their fans cause u are not in position to judge.Cause it seems every time u post that u try to underestimate the Greek metal scene because of some bad sellers.
Try to see the larger picture if u can.

Bootleggers and those that sell such items are not supporting any "scene". Sure, greece as a ton of metal fans, shit, probably among the most per capita but that doesn't change the fact that these items continue to be listed and sold on a regular and increasing basis. My post had nothing to do with the fans, but rather the scum that try to profit from them. If these greek bootleggers want my money then they should at least bootleg material for example on CD that has never been available on CD format previously rather then reproducing cheap identical bootlegs of already legit pre-existing releases and attempting to pass them off as the real deal.

Avenger wrote:

Angelheart wrote:

Avenger wrote:
I don't agree with that at all. If the sellers would blatantly list such items as a bootleg instead of trying to be deceptive then I'm sure a lot of these buyers would avoid such sellers. It's the lack of knowledge from the buyer and the dishonesty of these greek sellers. Like I said before, you can yell and scream all you want that other countries bootleg items as well and that's fine, however, it's nowhere near the same extent of the greeks. Look for any CD on ebay for example and it will be sold AT LEAST at a 10:1 ratio of greeks selling the same bootlegs over sellers from any other countries.

I didn't say that those sellers are not to blame.I said they are thieves.I have tried to prevent those sellers from selling in ebay or anywhere.What did u do by your side?
And i don't like your tone saying that i yell and scream.I don't like people like u telling bad things generally about Greece and their fans cause u are not in position to judge.Cause it seems every time u post that u try to underestimate the Greek metal scene because of some bad sellers.
Try to see the larger picture if u can.

Bootleggers and those that sell such items are not supporting any "scene". Sure, greece as a ton of metal fans, shit, probably among the most per capita but that doesn't change the fact that these items continue to be listed and sold on a regular and increasing basis. My post had nothing to do with the fans, but rather the scum that try to profit from them. If these greek bootleggers want my money then they should at least bootleg material for example on CD that has never been available on CD format previously rather then reproducing cheap identical bootlegs of already legit pre-existing releases and attempting to pass them off as the real deal.

And we agree.I told u i have made attempts to prevent this.Do the same and tell it to your friends not to buy them.Also when u come to the european festivals ,go to the organisers and ask them to not allow stands with bootleg merchandise.Also send email to that american seller that has made hundreds of bootleg cheap cds and doesn't say if these are legal or not.And u can do many more things from your side.Don't just complain here in a forum that few people read these topics.
Cheers

Angelheart wrote:

Avenger wrote:

Angelheart wrote:
I didn't say that those sellers are not to blame.I said they are thieves.I have tried to prevent those sellers from selling in ebay or anywhere.What did u do by your side?
And i don't like your tone saying that i yell and scream.I don't like people like u telling bad things generally about Greece and their fans cause u are not in position to judge.Cause it seems every time u post that u try to underestimate the Greek metal scene because of some bad sellers.
Try to see the larger picture if u can.

Bootleggers and those that sell such items are not supporting any "scene". Sure, greece as a ton of metal fans, shit, probably among the most per capita but that doesn't change the fact that these items continue to be listed and sold on a regular and increasing basis. My post had nothing to do with the fans, but rather the scum that try to profit from them. If these greek bootleggers want my money then they should at least bootleg material for example on CD that has never been available on CD format previously rather then reproducing cheap identical bootlegs of already legit pre-existing releases and attempting to pass them off as the real deal.

And we agree.I told u i have made attempts to prevent this.Do the same and tell it to your friends not to buy them.Also when u come to the european festivals ,go to the organisers and ask them to not allow stands with bootleg merchandise.Also send email to that american seller that has made hundreds of bootleg cheap cds and doesn't say if these are legal or not.And u can do many more things from your side.Don't just complain here in a forum that few people read these topics.
Cheers

Here's the main part of your original post that I was focusing on:

Angelheart wrote:Buyers that are willing to pay big amount of money for any of them, should have been at least well informed and clever enough not to fall in some thief's trap.

Judging by this statement it's as if you are blaming the buyer rather then the seller. Sure people that post regularly on these boards are probably among the most knowledgeable when it comes to bootlegs and various pressings of such content. However, everybody has got to start somewhere. Let's say that some one is just starting to get into this kind of music and has decided that MP3's just aren't doing it for them anymore and that they want a hard copy of the music. It's not as if they have a huge database or community of knowledge to check or ask as a reference point before buying something. It's so easy to purchase a bootleg thinking that it's a good deal (and to be honest some people may just not give a shit) but it's not as if this information is so widely available that people "should" be more informed. It's the sellers taking advantage of these people. if they weren't selling bootlegs to begin with then it wouldn't be a problem at all.

Avenger wrote:cheap identical bootlegs of already legit pre-existing releases and attempting to pass them off as the real deal.

Those are not bootlegs, those are counterfeits! I think we need to draw a line between bootleg and counterfeit.
I have tolerance for certain bootlegs but I absolutely hate counterfeit CDs!

mega_lodon wrote:

Avenger wrote:cheap identical bootlegs of already legit pre-existing releases and attempting to pass them off as the real deal.

Those are not bootlegs, those are counterfeits! I think we need to draw a line between bootleg and counterfeit.
I have tolerance for certain bootlegs but I absolutely hate counterfeit CDs!

You are right. I''m with you on that one.