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I suppose that some of you may know about this demo. I had never heared about this demo till the day I found it on a split CD here in Athens, along with Steel Prophet's "Inner ascendance" '89 demo. Of course I'm talking about the Reborn Classics bootleg.

At that time I hadn't internet and the man in the store told me that "Shadow Thief" was about to be released as Jag Panzer's second album but remained unreleased. Also I had bought Tyrants, Ample Destruction and Chain of command and I liked their stuff very much, so I thought that JP's stuff from 80s should be amazing, so I bought it.

To say the truth I didn't expect such a great demo sound! Great songwritting, great guitars and vocals by the one and the only one Harry "The Tyrant" Conklin. Powerfull songs such as "Shadow Thief", "Lying Deceiver", "Out of sight, out of mind", "Fallen Angel" and "Take this pain away" aren't written nowdays!

I recently dug this out and re-played it, always liked it a lot. Contains some great tracks like 'shadow thief' and 'out of sight, out of mind' (although that one is lighter than most classic 'Panzer material). I always loved the weird 'typewriter' sound on the tape during the bridge of 'shadow thief' and have an old email msg from one of the guys discussing that sound being on the tape I do have to say I always thought 'in a gada da vida' was a very odd cover selection for 'Panzer, and I was even more surprised they re-did it during the 'chain of command' recordings, which aren't as good as the ST recordings IMO

nightsblood wrote: the 'chain of command' recordings, which aren't as good as the ST recordings IMO

True.

Good recording, but most of the songs were included on later albums in great versions. The real treat is "Lying Deceiver". I wonder why they never put that on a regular album? Maybe it was deemed to melodic, but a great song nonetheless.

Wasn't 'lying deceiver' included on a reissue of Ample D- as a bonus track?

nightsblood wrote:Wasn't 'lying deceiver' included on a reissue of Ample D- as a bonus track?

Yeah, the one on Metalcore records.

This actually probably my favorite Jag Panzer release. I like the more melodic direction they took away from Ample Destruction, but at the same time it's still a very "tough" headbanging album. With Chain of Command they cut away all the edge and turned the old songs into what could have been Titan Force leftovers, so I always opt for Shadow Thief over that one.

HamburgerBoy wrote:With Chain of Command they cut away all the edge and turned the old songs into what could have been Titan Force leftovers, so I always opt for Shadow Thief over that one.

I always liked Chain of Command a lot better than the Shadof Thief demo because generally it has much better song writing. There are only two songs (+the cover) that are on both ST and COC and I think both of them sound better on COC, not greatly but slightly.

Jag Panzer will always be superior to Titan Force, to these ears Titan Force always sounded like an imitation of the more melodic Jag Panzer so if either of the bands was playing leftovers from the other it was Titan Force that played Jag Panzer leftovers.

I never could get into this demo. Besides The first MLP and Ample Destruction I never been able to get into their stuff. I got The Age of Mastery on vinyl but I really hate it. How much I love Harry Conklin vocals on the first recordings I can't stand them on this record; too much whining. I'll give it a try soon once again.

Age of Mastery is the only 'new' JP I like; all the others that I've heard have been very disappointing

nightsblood wrote:Age of Mastery is the only 'new' JP I like; all the others that I've heard have been very disappointing

Have you heard The Fourth Judgement? I like that quite a bit and it sounds similar to the first album. Thane to the Throne is also good but very different in style.

mordred wrote:Jag Panzer will always be superior to Titan Force, to these ears Titan Force always sounded like an imitation of the more melodic Jag Panzer so if either of the bands was playing leftovers from the other it was Titan Force that played Jag Panzer leftovers.

I agree that the early Jag Panzer material is better then anything Titan Force ever put out but I disagree with the "leftover" statement. Titan Force was a completely different band minus "The Tyrant" and went in a completely different direction. Sub-genre wise, there wasn't much Progressive about Jag Panzer's Conklin years. I really don't feel that Titan Force was trying to re-hash anything Jag Panzer ever did, but rather explore different territory.

Avenger wrote:

mordred wrote:Jag Panzer will always be superior to Titan Force, to these ears Titan Force always sounded like an imitation of the more melodic Jag Panzer so if either of the bands was playing leftovers from the other it was Titan Force that played Jag Panzer leftovers.

I agree that the early Jag Panzer material is better then anything Titan Force ever put out but I disagree with the "leftover" statement. Titan Force was a completely different band minus "The Tyrant" and went in a completely different direction. Sub-genre wise, there wasn't much Progressive about Jag Panzer's Conklin years. I really don't feel that Titan Force was trying to re-hash anything Jag Panzer ever did, but rather explore different territory.

Titan Force was very different from Ample Destruction that's true, but Jag Panzer moved in a very similar melodic direction themselves with the Shadow Thief demo and the Chain of Command recordings. If either of the bands were trying to rehash the other or if it was just coincidence I don't know, but I think no one would have raised an eyebrow if "Burning Heart" or "Lying Deceiver" had been on the Titan Force debut, or if "Blaze of Glory" had been on Chain of Command.

mordred wrote:

Avenger wrote:

mordred wrote:Jag Panzer will always be superior to Titan Force, to these ears Titan Force always sounded like an imitation of the more melodic Jag Panzer so if either of the bands was playing leftovers from the other it was Titan Force that played Jag Panzer leftovers.

I agree that the early Jag Panzer material is better then anything Titan Force ever put out but I disagree with the "leftover" statement. Titan Force was a completely different band minus "The Tyrant" and went in a completely different direction. Sub-genre wise, there wasn't much Progressive about Jag Panzer's Conklin years. I really don't feel that Titan Force was trying to re-hash anything Jag Panzer ever did, but rather explore different territory.

Titan Force was very different from Ample Destruction that's true, but Jag Panzer moved in a very similar melodic direction themselves with the Shadow Thief demo and the Chain of Command recordings. If either of the bands were trying to rehash the other or if it was just coincidence I don't know, but I think no one would have raised an eyebrow if "Burning Heart" or "Lying Deceiver" had been on the Titan Force debut, or if "Blaze of Glory" had been on Chain of Command.

It's hard to say. Titan Force was formed the same year that "Chain Of Command" was recorded and who knows how long the material for the S/T Titan Force debut was rehearsed for before the albums release in '89.

I'm a Jag Panzer fan...one of my biggest metal disappointments was to know that Harry Conklin actually hates what he did in those old J.P. albuns and recordings...