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This thread is about a very specific phenomenon.

Let's look at Sanctuary's lyric from the seminal 'Future Tense'

What do you see on the news when you watch T.V.
War in the name of God, or a playground killing spree
Politicians promise you the world, and a preacher cries
All he ever wanted was your money, and a bitch on the side
What went wrong? Did society twist him?

What do you see in the center of the public eye
Rock stars on smack, and a serial killer fries
Radicals blame suicide and murder on our from of art
Brainwash the youth, you know they claim we all play a part
What a shame that they can't think for themselves

Past tense to future tense let history unfold
So ends a decade now what will the nineties hold
You know we're verging on the edge of an age
Then another century will turn the page

What do you think they will say when they look back on this
Were the eighties just a time of spoiled innocence
We leave our legacy like dust in the sands of time
Let's hope the seeds we plant can carry the weight of our crimes

We sail an ocean, a sea of doubt
Skeptics make no sense, can't work things out
I'll choose optimism, scream its name
Look to the future, a burning flame

This was put out at 1990. Warrel Dane here espouses a historical optimism and what could be argued to be a very Heavy Metal credo of self-reliance and desire for a better world. A mere 6 years later we read, now in Nevermore, the lyrics of 'Politics of Ecstasy'

I hate you, the pigs who turn the screws,
I hate everything you stand for
I hate the world we've bred, political pigs we've fed
Our fathers left us nothing but a dead world

Beyond repair down in despair
Our fathers left us nothing

Choking on the influx of technology
I realize the politics of ecstasy

And we can't change what's in stone
We've been had. Injustice to the masses
Destroy the land and crush the poor
The pigs are fueled by greed, political ways obscene
Our fathers left corruption in this dead world

Beyond repair down is despair
Our fathers left us nothing
Choking on the puke of their industry
Regurgitated propaganda, ministry

Freedom's never free
The politics of ecstasy are these
Freedom's never free
These are the politics of ecstasy:

I hate you, the pigs who turn the screws
I hate everything you stand for
I hate the world we've bred, political pigs we've fed
Our fathers left us nothing but a dead world

Beyond repair down in despair
Our fathers left us nothing
Choking on the influx of technology
I realize the politics of ecstasy

If you take a step back and you
Realize your home can't be a perfect world
There's still hope the hate you fell will fade,
Injustice is gone
Injustice is gone for a little while


You can substitute this transition for Exxplorer's from 'Symphony of Steel' to 'Coldblackugly', or Jag Panzer's right turn in 'Dissident Alliance' or so many more, I'm sure you all understand what I'm going for. Sanctuary/Nevermore is just the chosen example because it's simply more successful and the music is of higher quality. I want to discuss why this shift happened at that point in time without really really bad music like 'Dissident Alliance' clouding the waters.

What happened in these 6 years? I think the Sanctuary/Nevermore case is a very indicative one for the metal zeitgeist, if you will. I contend that the world was going much, much worse in 1986 than it was in 1996. By 1990 the fall of the Soviet Union (and therefore the end of the Cold War) was a reality, Reganomics were out by 1987 and although of course there was no rose-tinted future at hand, things were looking marginally up. So why are there many HM lyrics full of innocence and desire for positive change in mid-80's and up, and then we have these disillusioned and cynical lyrics in the 90's, along with significant and relevant musical changes in the same bands?

1. Was it because the industry had changed and desired 'grungy' cynicism as a manufactured afterthought of teenager dispondency of the late 80s, so a lot of talented individuals that simply wanted to live off of their music tried to fit in the climate of the times? Is a band as distinctively as uncompromising in sound, thematics and approach as early Nevermore then, a reflex reaction to the 'grunge' thing? Are they for all their early talk about their distaste of the Seattle trendsetting, a juxtaposed follower of that same effect?

2. Was it just because people grow up? Is it about the inherent (?) cynicism in really realizing how the world works? Early Sanctuary atmosphere which we so treasure then, is the product of the lack of life experience on the part of Warrel Dane, of childish naivety? Does discovering say, heroin, mandate a more 'grown up' psyche, or has one teenager fantasy (Heavy Metal optimism) just been traded in for another, superficially 'darker' and 'grittier' fantasy, one of drugs and paranoia? Let's not forget that 'Politics of Ecstasy' has in it sci-fi songs about sentient machines in it besides Hunter S. Thompson rants about politics and reality.

3. Was this a conscious attempt at making more 'grown up' Heavy Metal on the part of several - predominantly US metal - bands in the early 90s? Could the case be made that for most bands that stuck to the - could be argued - 'fantasy ideals' of the 80's even when the members were now well in their 30s or sometimes 40s and held down dayjobs and lived in a compromised world, that they were keeping the genre in a state of arrested development? Or could it be said that there could - and can still - be made vital Heavy Metal which is pure of heart and not cynical?

4. For those that will express a distaste for the Nevermore record 'Politics of Ecstasy' as 90's trash and generally not-Heavy-Metal-enough, but at the same time exclaim that they listen to the 80's HM they love but do not intellectually tackle it, instead they like how 'it feels' and that's that, I present the point of contention: is it more honest or more hypocritical to listen to this peculiar strand of cynical 90's metal in a honest way because one understands what it stands for and adopts its iconography and message, than it is to listen to 80's childlike and fantasy escapist metal in a cynical way where true belief in what it stood for has been shed away as one grows up and realizes how the world is?


My argument is that this short-lived attempt to cast HM in a more 'adult' mode served as little else to adulterate it. I posit that the more 'grown up' material presented in a slew of 90's 'gritty' metal records ranging from Pantera to Biohazard to whatever else had no factual basis on reality at all and was simply trading in one fantasy narrative for another that was more palatable in the 90's climate, which was not a worsening one, geopolitically, but a more cheapened one, politically, culturally, intellectually.

However this doesn't mean Heavy Metal doesn't long to grow up in vital ways and that we shouldn't endorse this process. How this growing up would be to occur is beyond the scope of this post, but elaborations on the topic are encouraged.

My end of this observation lies in us, the listeners, however: if we deride some metal based on the year it came out, we are too, very possible, the product of this intellectually and culturally baser era. We aren't simply choosing between something truer and something false, as two fantasies (the 80's burning flame or the 90's drugs and paranoia) are different but they're still fantasies, we are just choosing through which lens we prefer to gaze at our daydreaming. I am not saying we should all start to listen to Coldblackugly, obviously. It was actually very fascinating how this median point in metal trying to become 'urbane' died out extremely fast. It wasn't just because it was a transitionary stage, it was also because the music was really, really bad, most of the time. Even the said Nevermore have moved towards vaguer notions in their lyrics after the 'Politics of Ecstasy' record, one could say even retread teenager-fantasy models later on. That drug shit in HM, apparently, is over.

I am saying we should however address a possible 80's fixation in a more nuanced way than just 'the metal was just better then'. Was it? Weren't there enough liars back then too, pandering to the demographics? Why is a band talking about battlefield lore and self-reliance inherently more true, in the end? Furthermore, those of us that listen to 'traditional metal' revivalist bands today, are we engaging in anything vital or real? Aren't there bands waiting for our support that might be doing more significant steps in making HM arrive at vitality and potency again that might not play like Running Wild?

Couldn't it be argued that if we admit to listening to HM for reasons of nostalgia and that only, then we are products of an environment that created this 'cynicism metal' trend of the early 90's and we approach the 80's metal we so cherish in as an intellectually bankrupt way?

Interesting read as usual, Helm. I must read again and think a bit about what's being said before I dare answering. Or - what the heck! Try this.

I definitely prefer Sanctuary (esp. Into the Mirror Black) over anything I've heard from Nevermore (debut - Dead heart... then I lost track). I would also say I prefer Nevermore at their best over most stuff by Tyrant (Germany), Stormwitch or Virgin Steele (which I all like) but not over Breaker (Germany), Warlord or Brainfever. My own lyrics and the way I look and dress probably has more in common with the way you describe the nineties than the eighties. Then again maybe I overestimate the value of Nevermore because they came at a time when there was nothing more for me to do than check out old stuff I had missed first time around (be it seventies or eighties music) - and thus, despite their pessimistic outlook, providing me with some hope (later realized by the likes of Slough Feg, Skullview, Hammerf... I meant Hammers of Misfortune et al, adding the emergence of this forum and it's likes as well as stuff like KIT and HOA...

What do I want to say? (I think BlackAxe got it right a few days ago ) Well, at least to me history isn't all easy to decipher, develope mentally and describe for others to take in... (damn, now I got all pessimistic and nineties-y!)

Why then pessimistic, cynic, adultish nineties Heavy Metal?

Fashion, fear of seeming naive in the current fashion, listening to others.
Same reasons that some people are getting into the current NWoTHM trend?

I know nothing.

Very interesting subject, Mr. Helm, and a good read in any case.

I can of course only write from a non-American point of view, but weren`t the 80s not generally a decade of distinctive optimism after the 70s malaise (Vietnam, oil-crisis, double digit inflation, Iranian revolution, invasion of Afgahnistan by the USSR, unemployment, national self-doubt...)? You can witness that in movies, books, ect as well.

And after 1989 there was another backlash in the other direction, if you will. Cynicism instead of "naive" optimism, which didn't spare the metal scene, just to put it very simple here.

And by the way, when I read lines like Our fathers left us nothing I just wonder how spoiled and namby-pampy does that sound like. People grow up in the most prosperous and free society, they sould try to match the achievement of their fathers and forefathers, instead of endless complaining and eventually screwing it all up in the end (financial crisis). But that is also a political issue, i think the reagonomics in fact helped to end the 70s economic slumb, something where you`ll probably disagree, but that's okay.

I´ll stick with the 80s "escapism" metal for a while, as you put it, that is just perfect for me!

Yes, very interesting thread indeed, I'd have to read the 1st post once again though ...

However, Warrel Dane had some serious problems in his personal life and I believe that's why his hopes, optimism etc. changed through the years. It's similar as with the so called Slovene's greatest poet, France Prešeren: although his earlier works weren't about nice things, he still had a positive approach - a hope, which was later lost because of his life's tragedies (he wasn't successful in his love life, work, his best friend died etc ...).

I wouldn't say that the secret lies in those 6 years (I only know Sanctuary / Nevermore, not other bands here), it's somewhat of a natural "progress" in a person's life and it's been happening to people 200 years ago and now.

But probably things like the new drugs and new authority in the USA (democrats again) had a lot of impact on the metal evolution in the early - mid 90s.

Personally I don't think it matters so much why we listen to metal. We simply do it because we are attracted to its power and force. Metal, and music in general, is a great form of self-expression. If you analyze it musically, Warrel Dane's voice was very undeveloped at the time of those Sanctuary recordings, and therefore his high-pitched shrieks and squeals may turn off a lot of would-be listeners.

90s metal, or even recent metal, can be just as nostalgic as 80s metal can be. The only difference is that more people have heard and are familiar with Judas Priest's "Living After Midnight" than have heard Cyclone Temple's "Why." I would opine that, if we truly want Metal to grow up, we should not merely listen to the music, but rather engage ourselves with it by practicing music and becoming the next generation of musicians who will take Metal to the next level of its natural evolution.

Sgt. Kuntz wrote:I can of course only write from a non-American point of view, but weren`t the 80s not generally a decade of distinctive optimism after the 70s malaise (Vietnam, oil-crisis, double digit inflation, Iranian revolution, invasion of Afgahnistan by the USSR, unemployment, national self-doubt...)? You can witness that in movies, books, ect as well.

Actually the tail end of the 80's I think was the most paranoiac time, what with the onset of nuclear war. The 70's were more politically active, the hippie movement, communism was considered viable, nobody had *given up* yet...

It's really interesting to me that a band like Deathrow - from germany - can write the song 'Machinery' which is all about the consumerist mindset and how hopeless it is to be a thinking being in the 1989 reality and then Warrel Dane whines in 1996 about how nobody left him nothing to work with and all he wants to do is take drugs...

And after 1989 there was another backlash in the other direction, if you will. Cynicism instead of "naive" optimism, which didn't spare the metal scene, just to put it very simple here.

Yeah pretty much and we DID have another backlash to the cynicism in countries where cynicism in youth hadn't caught up yet like Scandinavia. Black Metal was hopeful and romantic in its own way. Of course now we've all been americanicized there too and here and everywhere and everyone's ashamed to write HM from the heart and talk about what they really feel. It's really interesting to me how much black metal betrayed its own premise. For example there's this band, Ofemord, you know them? Some sort of 'orthodox' black metal, going with a really obscurist literary and religious angle to their lyrics and aesthetics. I happened to not buy into their stuff and at the blog 'Left Hand Path' I had criticized what I found as contradictions between the aesthetics of the band and how he interviewed. And he came on in the comments and employed his 13 year old american-on-the-internetesque sarcasm on me. Is it all show? Has nobody ascended through their art? Are the transgressive song title and lyrics and aesthetics just a mirror to hide behind, not believing anything one says themselves and hoping nobody will notice? Really disappointing. At least Vickerness still believes what he always believed, you know? I might not agree with everything he says but there's something about continuity and consequence...

And by the way, when I read lines like Our fathers left us nothing I just wonder how spoiled and namby-pampy does that sound like. People grow up in the most prosperous and free society, they sould try to match the achievement of their fathers and forefathers, instead of endless complaining and eventually screwing it all up in the end (financial crisis). But that is also a political issue, i think the reagonomics in fact helped to end the 70s economic slumb, something where you`ll probably disagree, but that's okay.

I can't really comment as I am not very well-versed in economy, I can only parrot what my father - who is very, very well-versed in economy - has told me about the Reagan administration.

But I do agree that song sounds especially spoiled... to Warrel Dane's defense, it's a song that paints and emotional picture even if it's extremely hopeless. If it affects you then it's not without merit, you know? It has affected me in the past and even though I'm more interested in the why and how such a song can be written by a self-proclaimed optimist 4 years ago, I cannot deny it has had impact on the primary level before.

I´ll stick with the 80s "escapism" metal for a while, as you put it, that is just perfect for me!

What I wonder is if there's other viable ways to have HM grow besides fantasyland escapism or 'brutal drug reality' (which I find much worse too)... I don't like this (false?) dichotomy. Surely there are other ways...

Sovdat: I see what you mean, of course stuff I couldn't know like the personal life if Warrel Dane could explain this shift but I am not so much interested in that... we can look at different records by different bands in the mid-90's doing that shift and examine them. Are *all* of them about personal troubles?

Do you think a democratic administration in the US actually made HM band people worse off? Given how musicians are - even metalheads - by and wide, liberal in their beliefs and practices? You think they'd prefer the Reagan insanity?

UriahHeep: I do agree that honest engagement and exploration of what HM does to a dedicated listener and what one stands to learn from it is the way to carry it towards a future of relevancy on another level than just that of nostalgia. It's an extremely potent and powerful shell through witch personal meaning can be conveyed, and a lot of bands have done this, however when I look at today's HM bands (I'm thinking of the revivalist scenes) besides a few standouts like Atlantean Codex or Hammers of Misfortune, I see a lot of copy-catting. I am certain that this does something for the musicians involved and I am not knocking it... but I do think it's hopeless to try to reach for something vital and 'like the metal in the old days' by emulating the metal of the old days and in some ways that's no better than the 'druggie reality metal' of the 90's-00's. That's the conundrum.


Thank you all for the discourse.