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[split from the Martyr-thread/DaN]
Just checked out the new stuff. No, not my bag at all, but I was expecting something even worse. It sounded more 90's than 00's, which is only the 2nd worst thing imaginable I guess. "I am the most evil one" could have been decent if it weren't for the weak & pointless 'groooovy' riffing.

It makes me wonder: why do so many old 80's band go in this direction when they reform nowdays? Is this the kind of stuff they're into these days? Or is it just a failed attempt at 'keepin up with the times'?

DaN wrote:
It makes me wonder: why do so many old 80's band go in this direction when they reform nowdays? Is this the kind of stuff they're into these days? Or is it just a failed attempt at 'keepin up with the times'?

I guess it is a mixture of both...or they want to play the stuff their kids are listening to...

Oliver/KIT wrote:...or they want to play the stuff their kids are listening to...

That would be the most tragic option. Still, when I think about it a lot of old-timers (fans and old bands) who I've met and who still listen to Metal in any shape or form seem to be more into today's "Metal" styles than your average 80's Steel Maniac. Just a funny observation...

DaN wrote:It makes me wonder: why do so many old 80's band go in this direction when they reform nowdays? Is this the kind of stuff they're into these days? Or is it just a failed attempt at 'keepin up with the times'?

You should be able to find the answer in your own signature...

My short answer would be. The ones struck by this phenomenon (musicians and fans) are probably lacking in vision and being easily influenced by things "new" they are randomly dragged into any flood of crap (this time - in Martyr's case first time around the flood was a golden one).

In spiteful commemoration of the unholy trinity of the nineties:
Jag Panzer - Dissident Alliance 1994
Exxplorer - ColdBlackUgly 1996
Omen - Reopening the Gates 1997

And when their "flame starts to burn again" after many years of not listening to metal first thing they hear from MTV or somewhere else is metal of 90's/00's...

"I heard Pantera and it made me to go back cellar and dig up my guitar after 10/15/20 years."

Change of influences is possible in some cases. Couple of other things to consider:

First, it's easy for people like us to forget that interest in oldschool metal is not a widespread, hugely popular phenomena. On an absolute scale, any band coming back out of the woodwork to play the same stuff they did 25 years ago is gonna have a pretty small audience, which means limited visibility and financial gain. It could take a band a couple of years to even get close to selling out a pressing of 1,000 new cd's- not going platinum with that release.

Second, these bands had little real success playing 80s Metal even during the 1980s, so what's their incentive to play the exact same style of music in the 00s? While we all like to thing that most bands "do it for the love of Metal" and all that hoopla, "love of metal" doesn't pay the touring bills, your recording time, or anything else. There's a good reason that a band starts getting copied as soon as they have a little success- bands gotta eat too, and "the love of metal" is not in any of the four food groups.

Sorry if this sounds cynical, but I think it's realistic.These guys are 18 years old anymore and can't live in the back of vans eating bread 5 days a week anymore. Things like recording costs may be cheaper now with home studio/computer equipment, but the band still has to think about the cost/reward of "getting the band back together".

To me these things happen all the time: Jaguar - This Time, Judas Priest - Point of Entry (Turbo, Painkiller...), Deep Purple - In Rock. Heck, even Manilla Road - Crystal Logic contains a jumping the bandwagon factor if we think about it. Sometimes it fares well, sometimes it doesn't - and the judges are bound to differ in opinion.

I like my metal earthy, warm, raw and round-edged (or was that my wife? ). Thus, if it seems too calculated, cold, machine-like or sharp-edged I most likely won't be able to appreciate it. Still, I wouldn't bother with the musicians' ideals or lack thereof. That may or may not show in their music - and if it doesn't I don't need to know.

GJ wrote:Deep Purple - In Rock

That album is a natural progression from the previous album(especially when taking in account the new singer).

Here's a real good one: Def Leppard -> everything.

I couldn't care less about what the bands listen to their homes, whether its TOOL, DRAGONFORCE, DREAM THEATER or the last PAGAN ALTAR. If they want to keep up with the times having the ''big'' production values and the groove in their riffing, that's their choice and i can't do anything about it, honestly i'm quite fed up caring for such issues anymore. I don't care whether they are back for the money, for fame and glory, for good old time's sake or because they have run out of chicks. If they can still make metal the way i like it, ballsy and passionate, without recycling the classic themes for the upteenth time, i will support and applaud their efforts to the very end. everything else is of minor or no importance.

Well, I've given up on old bands who are reformed and record new material; it just doesn't fucking work AT ALL. The only thing they care for seems to be a bigger audience who doesn't give a flying fuck about real music. Some bands doing the right thing like Cynic (the UK one) but 95% fail miserably.

ION BRITTON wrote:I couldn't care less about what the bands listen to their homes, whether its TOOL, DRAGONFORCE, DREAM THEATER or the last PAGAN ALTAR. If they want to keep up with the times having the ''big'' production values and the groove in their riffing, that's their choice and i can't do anything about it, honestly i'm quite fed up caring for such issues anymore. I don't care whether they are back for the money, for fame and glory, for good old time's sake or because they have run out of chicks. If they can still make metal the way i like it, ballsy and passionate, without recycling the classic themes for the upteenth time, i will support and applaud their efforts to the very end. everything else is of minor or no importance.

I kinda have same feelings about this issue though I occationally get disgusted with once-great-bands ruining their good names with third rate 00's metal imitations. Still, I don't wanna get too hot headed about it since there's more important things to do.

But man do I hate all that fucking GROOOVY one-string jamming.

GJ wrote:My short answer would be. The ones struck by this phenomenon (musicians and fans) are probably lacking in vision and being easily influenced by things "new" they are randomly dragged into any flood of crap (this time - in Martyr's case first time around the flood was a golden one).

I think that's pretty much it actually.

Black Axe wrote:Here's a real good one: Def Leppard -> everything.

I like the first two albums...

It is a mixture of a lot of factors in my opinion. The bands dont believe in their old fans, they want to be on top on the game again and try to sound contemporary. New technology let them do a lot more things they used to and as a result makes their sound modern. Some think they can achieve some "golden medium" and please both old and new fans and create those horrible hybrid albums with old-school influenced modern groovy shit...

It is a very common trap a lot of bands fall into and the result is always the same. Just look at SACRED OATH and their massive iTunes campaign with special download discounts and free guitar hero prizes and you will know what to expect from their upcoming album...

Avenger wrote:

Black Axe wrote:Here's a real good one: Def Leppard -> everything.

I like the first two albums...

DEF LEPPARD does not have place in this thread. They never reformed to start with, and all the time they were on the front on the wave, not followers. 1987 sounds diffrent coz the drummer had to play electronically enhanced drums and it was rewritten to fit. I dont think any of them anticipated how big that album would become - right time and the right place phenomenon for sure.