New Release ?

[doomedplanet]

John, sorry I was out of town for some days. Of course I think you should put out another great US metal release. I will buy it. But beyond that I don't know. Postage is a bitch these days, that and some other factors stopped me from doing it anymore. I still have 100 copies left out of 500 of my last 2 releases, so I guess even though I really pushed these titles not many people want 80's US style metal, or at least that is the felling I get when I have all this unsold stock.

I know you don't hype your titles, but hype is different than promoting/getting the word out there to let people know it is out and selling it. I wish more people knew how great that Bad Axe lp you released is for example

Tim says it is hard to sell vinyl. which is sad for me to read because I know I buy everything I can from him that isn't black/death titles. A lot of stuff he gets in sells out pretty fast. I see titles out of stock all the time on the few distros and labels I check about every week. Maybe there are copies at the label still and the distros don't restock? hard to say, I guess it varies every release.

Some of he the comments about what other labels are doing makes me want to make some responses but I don't want to derail this thread.

[great_knuthulhu]

I have no shame, so I'll hype a bit right here: if the Bad Axe album isn't sold out, everyone who has any interest in 70s hard rock/metal should get it right now. It's a very good release.

[Avenger]

Good thread.
I would say it is easy to do, tough to sell without doing all the stupid internet promotion/hype stuff. Print ads are a total waste. Solid packaging is a MUST. In this day, the trend is gearing towards very small presses w/ltd packaging, or larger runs w/a "die hard" edition (like NWN, one of the best labels out there).

I have almost sold out of my bands 1000 press 7" from earlier this year w/almost no internet hype or work (it's not metal though).

On a side note: I am thinking about doing some pro-printed tape releases, reissues of some bands that already have vinyl reissues of their classic stuffs. I would probably press 200 copies of each (since the vinyl is easily available) and print them on those old style off-white tapes.

Would anyone here buy something like that? Obviously this is a nostalgic idea, so if people here say they wouldn't buy it I won't proceed any further.

What kind of stuff are you looking to release?

Why not just release it on CD?

[roihlem]

I think if it is a vinyl only release it sells good. But if there will be also a CD edition, I suppose you will have a hard time selling those, as long as this band is not hyped or the release radically limited. I remember the big bands new vinyl editions are sold by their label for as good as nothing a year after its release...

I think it is the other way around. I know almost every vinyl collector will wait to pick on the LP version, and very very few of the CD collectors will buy the vinyl if there is no CD release (the majority of the CD guys dont even own a turntable)

maybe you are right, I am not following the new releases that much. I just remember a few years ago that vinyls from Nuclear Blast bands got sold by the label for around 2€ years after their releases...

[Shadow Kingdom]

Tim says it is hard to sell vinyl. which is sad for me to read because I know I buy everything I can from him that isn't black/death titles. A lot of stuff he gets in sells out pretty fast.

Some titles do sell better than others, but it wasn't meant as a discouragement to NOT put out vinyl, because I'm still gonna and I will buy and trade to everyone that wants to.

Stuff that appears "sold out" is usually stuff I only got a few copies of and I'm not that eager to drop say $200-500 bucks for new records to wait 6 months to re-coupe it... I usually wait until I have more money to restock stuff like this. Or it's stuff that should have been pressed in more quantity.

It's hard to say what's going to sell and what isn't. I can tell you from what I can tell most metal fans don't like "rough" or "bad" or "low quality" recordings. There is a diehard bunch of metal people that do like it and even an ultra die hard bunch that prefer it! You would think if you were into metal, low budget recordings would be the farthest thing from your mind, but it isn't.

When I said I didn't have any complaints about the ENERGY VAMPIRES DLP, I should have elaborated (I could write for days) and said that I didn't have any complaints about the "look" of it. But there was a TON of complaints about the recording. I don't understand it. It was just a cassette tape and practically every song was recorded with a different band in a different studio. Those songs were 17 years old and no masters, just a cassette tape. I've heard official releases that were way worse than this before... but like I said that release was for the die hards and I have faith there's 1,000 die hards out there just waiting to find this record or eventually get it. Like you said before Rob, vinyl is for the die hards anyway.

[Shadow Kingdom]

I think if it is a vinyl only release it sells good. But if there will be also a CD edition, I suppose you will have a hard time selling those, as long as this band is not hyped or the release radically limited. I remember the big bands new vinyl editions are sold by their label for as good as nothing a year after its release...

I think it is the other way around. I know almost every vinyl collector will wait to pick on the LP version, and very very few of the CD collectors will buy the vinyl if there is no CD release (the majority of the CD guys dont even own a turntable)

maybe you are right, I am not following the new releases that much. I just remember a few years ago that vinyls from Nuclear Blast bands got sold by the label for around 2€ years after their releases...

that's a problem. There's a risk putting out all releases and people don't have patience and trading/undercutting is what's killing labels.

People trade their $2 CDs for something with nice layout/artwork/design for say a Stormspell release only to see their release on ebay for $6.99 or whatver... that's joke. You can't survive as a label selling your CDs that low.

[Glockose]

Anyone still looking for Bad Axe should hit up Shadow Kingdom.
I think he still has these in stock.

Thanks again to everyone for replying.

[GJ]

Off topic: I somehow feel that all that's been written in this forum should be archived for future musicologists, sociologists and historians to help them understand the roots and mechanisms of olde cult Metal (which by then - whenever that is - has a world dominating status of course).

Back on topic: I sort of prefer my metal either vinyl only or cd only*. I don't want the choice! It's bad for my stomach. And it's even worse when both formats contain different extras.

*Does not apply for Manilla Road and Early Fates Warning stuff - yet, that is!

[DaN]

I would imagine that the most ungrateful things to release are more or less unknown acts, with no ties to famous/"cult" bands - even if the music is absolutely fantastic. Maybe with the exception of Doom/occult/dark/horror-ish bands though, they always seem to hype themselves and they also have a tendency to attract fans & buyers from outside the traditional underground HR/HM-scene. Or what sayest the labelists?

[Glockose]

I would imagine that the most ungrateful things to release are more or less unknown acts, with no ties to famous/"cult" bands - even if the music is absolutely fantastic. Maybe with the exception of Doom/occult/dark/horror-ish bands though, they always seem to hype themselves and they also have a tendency to attract fans & buyers from outside the traditional underground HR/HM-scene. Or what sayest the labelists?

Thanks
Can you expain this a little more?
Maybe an example

I would say this is what we always tried to do.
And is the only way I would continue

[Shadow Kingdom]

Everytime I try to type out long winded things, I have to run out. I could talk about this stuff for days because it's not as black and white as it seems.

I do think however you should put another release out whether it's HEAVY ROCK or METAL, I'll support it. I don't think you'll lose money, but I can't say how long it will be to re-coupe it.... so if you don't mind waiting to re-coupe the investment a year or 2, then do it.

Right now I think vinyl is hard to sell, the prices went up and it depends on the title too. Again this is not a deterant, just what little ol me thinks.

Now for the crazy talk. I DO think vinyl is going to come back huge (I've said this like 2 years ago). Why do I think that? Look at the recent vinyl re-issue of BIG bands. CELTIC FROST demos on Triple gatefold pressed 3,000 and sold out in like 2 weeks. METALLICA has DOUBLE LP re-issues out, selling HUGE amounts, BLACK SABBATH has re-issued their back catalog on vinyl again. These are good times coming, but it's not there YET... but I predict it will be. I may be wrong, but either way I'm still moving forward and stocking more vinyl in my store and putting more out on my label.

I wish I could put ALL my releases out on vinyl, but that's not do-able, I don't have the cash flow and some releases no matter how good you think they are, don't sell as well as others and are a risk.

It's hard to tell sometimes what's going to appeal to a wider audience or not, but I think I'm learning MORE now and with each release...

[In The Raw]

I think it is the other way around. I know almost every vinyl collector will wait to pick on the LP version, and very very few of the CD collectors will buy the vinyl if there is no CD release (the majority of the CD guys dont even own a turntable)

As for me, you are right. I have so many cds that I cannot even guess the number (I started using 100 disc boxes years ago and my filing has deteriorated into total chaos) but my primary focus is on archival stuff. And I do not own a turntable.

A perfect example is the DAMOCLES lp that Fils just did. On cd, I'd buy it in 3 seconds flat. No cd, and all I can do is be depressed. And start thinking about maybe finally getting off my ass and buying a turntable.

[doomedplanet]

I'll go so far as to say vinyl is the 1 true format for metal and all other formats are just pale imitations. let the flaming begin...

but like I said that release was for the die hards and I have faith there's 1,000 die hards out there just waiting to find this record or eventually get it. Like you said before Rob, vinyl is for the die hards anyway.

[Black Axe]

I'll go so far as to say vinyl is the 1 true format for metal and all other formats are just pale imitations. let the flaming begin...

Demo tapes FTW! Otherwise I agree.

[Avenger]

I'll go so far as to say vinyl is the 1 true format for metal and all other formats are just pale imitations. let the flaming begin...

The same could be said about any genre of music released in majority on vinyl though.

Over the years I've grown to like not having the backround noise that you naturally get with vinyl.

My turn table hasen't even worked since I last moved nearly seven months ago and to be honest I don't really miss it.

I gotten rid of the majority of my vinyl collection at this point anyways.