Nazis in (extreme) Metal

[daniel]

That's a strange, strange article, the writer's style makes it all seem almost like fiction, like the script to a crap made for television film/series. It reads like a crappy attempt at a sort of detached Hunter S. Thompson-esque gonzo. Also, Bailey states he hates white trash etc., but he himself has been involved with strip clubs since the 90's, and that is supposed to represent a GOOD side of society??? Just another occupation? Bullshit.

What happened to his son is terrible, and sickening, and it is right of him to pursue the matter so vigorously - I agree with the vigilante mindset, not least in the wake of the ridiculous sentences rapists have received here in Finland, it's like a joke! I have much hatred for any sort of racists, the anger boils up inside me whenever I see skinheads on the street, there should be much more mobilisation against such groups that do nothing but cultivate violence. People can be predisposed towards violence through upbringing and mental defects, and such individuals have no place in this world, violence is sickening, and this course of thinking inevitably leads to questions of what and how society would be controlled, which entails so many worrying questions on the balance of power, still, the current situation does NOT work, anywhere. Humanity has created a huge mess from which there is no easy escape, no solution that involves absolute equality. But if justice does not become harder on repeat offenders more chaos will follow, SHOULD follow.

This is also a problem when it comes to music in some cases, like with one of my favourite bands ARGHOSLENT - these guys have straddled the line between the are they really or are they not totally racist etc. - I love the music, and the well written lyrics, but at times they go over the top, the lyrics on some tracks on the newest split just went too far for comfort and it's a strange situation of enjoying the music but being made uneasy by the lyrical content - I cannot understand the need to look down upon others because of their colour of skin. The band has also released a split in the past with the band MUDOVEN, and this band's 'lyrics' are just the worst excrement I've come across, it honestly fills me with rage, I could attack those people if I saw them. I don't get why anyone would want to support or be associated with such ideals. Most racism and similar ideology is misguided anger that the person cannot understand, harboured in weak minds that are easily lead, yet it is also prominent in highly intelligent people, well this is harder to understand, but again it says much more about the person than it does provide any sort of greater validity for their beliefs. Distortion, factors in everywhere, a good guideline in judging it would be whether it is destructive and hostile, neither of which should be supported.

[Nathaniel]

Exactly.

xenophobia comes from an uncontrolled feeling of fear which sometimes transforms into the rawest aggression. Be it coming from socially low class people or educated persons.

Hence comes the eternal question about the "freedom of speech". On one hand these racist, fascists, extreme right winged people always say that they are victims because the law doesn't always allow them to spread frankly their pestilence, at least in some countries like France, germany, etc.
On the other hand these very same people, filled with hatred towards a so called "unworthy" part of the human kind, are the first to kill any "freedom of speech" whenever they get the power.

In the end what one finds in the metal scene reflects simply what the society is, and it comes as no surprise that a part of the scene is also infected by such narrow minded fuckers. This wouldn't be a big problem if these people would actually remain in their ultra confidential circles. But nowadays it seems that this "unpolitically corectness" (being nationalist, racist, totalitarian) has grown into the worst trend and fashion ever, and 15 years old kids start to dig metal with such bands, and in the end consider that being racist is somehow "normal"...

I cannot really appreciate fully a band if I know that behind the first image somelyrics or ideas deal with such rotten ideologies. ARGHOSLENT might be composed by skilled musicians, the message the band delivers is none of my interest and I don't support them. Ignorance in this case is relevant I guess.

[DaN]

Merged with the old "nazi"-thread since it really wasn't about Warzwolf at all./aDmiN

Edit: Here's a Warzwolf-thread in Poisonoise btw --> http://www.thecorroseum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3014

[Astra Wally]

Is it true that Ross the Boss played on one of the Ian Stuart's solo album, slay the beast ?

[Ernest Thesiger]

Is it true that Ross the Boss played on one of the Ian Stuart's solo album, slay the beast ?

Seems very unlikely, especially as Ross is Jewish.

[FuneralCircle]

Fuck them, it's not an issue of being politically correct or not - That is a cheap cop out and you're a complete bitch and sucker if you think the rejection of NS ideology is simple out of the desire of being politically correct. That's not the point. It's more of the issue that they expect the 1930s to happen again, and it just won't fuckin' happen. What I love about Metal is that it's an international movement, there is no real nationalism or anything... When you go to another country, no matter what cultural customs you're used to, you will recognize a fellow metalhead when you see him.

The rise of NS and nationalistic ideology in metal jeopardizes this. It only makes Metal seem more exclusively white, and I'm not sure about any of you but I really don't want that. Imagine a band like BLACK DEATH playing live these days... Even in a city like Vancouver in a country like Canada they would be laughed at, because people tolerate the racists and the bigots too much in metal. It's mainly the fault of black metal of course, because since Satan is not scary anymore they will use the NS ideology to do all the scary weight lifting for them... Little do they know it will cheapen the music they love, making it seem as it's exclusive to you only if you're "Aryan".

Why did this happen, and when? Well, there has always been that desire to push the envelope in metal in terms of attitude and offensiveness, and this is what we have gotten to. Little do these Nazi scum know is that Metal is not about offending people, it's about WRITING GOOD FUCKING MUSIC. That's why they often call metalheads "white niggers" and sing the praises of fucking "visionaries" (whatever the fuck that means) of people like Varg Vikernes of Burzum or that moron in Graveland.

I will admit, this is the most embarrassing and humiliating aspect of metal as a whole. Fuck Nazis, they should have been bombed further into the fucking Earth so they wouldn't poison something as great as metal.

I must say though, that I am totally for freedom of speech (not in a fucking retarded libertarian sense), and I do listen to bands that use Nazi imagery (but mostly from Japan) like Mein Kampf, Rommel and Heavy Metal Army - Not to mention bands like HOLOCAUSTO - Who used it moreso for shock value than anything else.

However, when I see Metal as a breeding ground for bogus racist science, stupid eugenics nonsense, and other such poisonous pseudo-science and nonsense, I will gladly debate it because it's just false, not only morally, but all evidence points to it being fucking nonsense.

I for one am sick of having to turn a blind eye to Nazis and racists. They will say what they think, and I will challenge them at every turn and every opportunity. That is always when they begin to throw red herrings every ad absurdum and claim to be victimized by the "PC" majority for their views that are unpopular because of those "damn Jews".

Anyone who speaks in defense of these Nazi fuckheads is just a pussy. Grow some balls.

[FuneralCircle]

By the way daniel, how in the fuck are the lyrics for ARGHOSLENT well written? Don't they strike you as being as "pseudo-intellectual" as the people who they claim are against them?

I find nothing brilliant about lyrics such as:

Born with genetic imperfections
The Nubian Archer unable to grasp
The shortcomings of his brood

Fucking ingenious. Also liked when Pogrom personally said to me that Persians "drive around stealing universities and our women". Talk about a cunt who doesn't get laid much, if he thinks that way about a woman.

[Nathaniel]

@ Funeral circle: +666!

[daniel]

Is Alex Pogrom or Holocausto?

Who are you going off at? Me? Cos you're acting as if someone's defending them. I can be troubled by certain lyrical content and still really like the music. I probably didn't make clear my stance on the lyrics; some of them are full of crap and stupid, like the song you quoted, while others are very beautiful to me, the images they conjure up, as in 'Defile The Angelic', 'The Banners of Castile', 'Galloping Through The Battle Ruins' and 'Ten Lost Tribes' off the first LP and 'Archaic Invinsibility' off their 2nd. I even like the IMAGES and FEELINGS certain non-PC songs evoke such as in 'Of Spears and Horns', 'Rape of A Slave' and 'Hereditary Taint' and will continue to do so without any goddamn guilt. I've already expressed my disgust over solely hateful and racist writings, and Arghoslent have their fair share of that too, it's probably getting worse because some lyrics on the new split-LP made me feel really uneasy and disappointed. That's the strange situation I'm put in, I waver between trying to ignore it, being angry about it, and sometimes simply enjoying the music - I have no problem enjoying the inoffensive material of course. Sometimes they'll say something well crap in an interview, and at other times somewhat redeem themselves, but it is two individuals speaking who do not seem to harbour equal levels of animosity, but that's something I can't conclusively comment on since I don't know them and have only met them twice.
When Arghoslent played in Finland last year they did three gigs, two of which I attended. The first was in a small club in Helsinki which i attended with three friends, it was one of the best gigs I've ever been to. There was no stage, so the band was just set up among everyone else, and I was right at the front the whole set, there was no 'nazi' crap or similar, and I had a beer and talked to Alex too. The second gig was outside Tampere out in the middle of nowhere in some house next to fields and woods, there were several bands playing, went there with Tuomas and Rainer from Archgoat and my girlfriend Linda. There were several bands playing, at least Satanic Warmaster and Gravewurm, can't remember. Anyway there was this 'Aryan Nation White Pride' flag at the back of the stage, don't know who's idea this was, and at least during the SW set people were Sieg Heiling, and I was saying what a bunch of fucking idiots, also saw some skins from Turku around, especially one guy I once had a fight with. Still, can't say there was any sort of tense feeling in the air. I'll say that no one gave Rainer any shit, which has happened before, especially to his brother Kai, whom is actually lighter than him, some guy from Razor of Ocham gave him some shit in Turku once, fuck, they really beat that dude up bad, don't fuck with the Archgoat brothers. I'm against violence overall by the way. Well I've gone off track, the only real point was that the Tampere gig wasn't at all as enjoyable when all the politics were prominent there.

I am currently planning an interview I will send Arghoslent for a zine I'm doing, and they may choose to not respond but I will be challenging many of the statements they have made in previous interviews and try to get to the bottom of some of their nonsense, so you know.

[malegys]

damn, did some googleing, seems you're right! obviously the Motörhead skull originally had a swastika instead of the Iron Cross (which replaced it on later versions..) - never was aware of that, all my records has the Cross, but none are originally from the 70s. crap, now I need to overcome political correctness and start a hunt for the originals

no I won't.. done with stuff like that after preferably buying KISS records with the original "SS" instead of the modified German ones..

Cant seem to find it - I also thought the Iron Cross was meant with the Swastika. Can you post a photo?

didn't find pictures neither, was referring to what i.e. wikipedia says:

Originally the Snaggletooth design included a swastika on one of the helmet's spikes. This was painted out on later re-releases of the albums on CD.

.. but now am confused again. the difference between a swastika and an Iron Cross should be clear - but maybe that means the Iron Crosses have been retouched? somebody needs to brighten that up. GJ, go visit your brother

My vinyl copy of Iron Fist has the skull on the backcover with a Swastika scratched into it.

[Rob]

Yep, my copy of Iron First also has a swastika on it. On the middle horn of the creature helmet.


The Iron Cross is an military symbol, something that was (and still is) awarded to someone who'd do great deeds. It's still in use in many armies throughout the world I think. At least I know that we still use it around here.

Man if you ask me, no offence, but confusing the Iron Cross with the Nazis is retarded. Everyone used it before them and everyone used it after them. I can understand the lack of military culture on some people though but it still bothers me every time someone looks at my silver Iron Cross on my leather jacket and say it's a nazi symbol.

[FuneralCircle]

Hey Daniel, I didn't mean to come off as you're defending them, I just say I take issue with Arghoslent's lyrics - Sometimes I see that people act like apologists for bands with hateful lyrics just because of a few good riffs.

Arghoslent have good sounding riffs, but to be honest I think only their first album is listenable from beginning to end - That of course is a matter of taste and opinion. To me though, I just find them absolutely ridiculous... All metalheads from the South of the US should be absolutely humiliated because ARGHOSLENT seem to get the most attention in the underground. They certainly seem to mix traditional riffs and controversy well enough to establish a fanbase among a genre of music that is listened mostly by impressionable young white guys.

[FuneralCircle]

I am currently planning an interview I will send Arghoslent for a zine I'm doing, and they may choose to not respond but I will be challenging many of the statements they have made in previous interviews and try to get to the bottom of some of their nonsense, so you know.

Looking forward to this.

[Rick]

Well, I accept that people can enjoy the music alone and detach from the other aspects of a band, but I personally cannot concerning this particular issue. Nazism and racism just totally kill a band for me. Bands that are really Nazi or that support bigotry, such as Arghoslent or Grand Belial's Key, are definitely scrapped from my book regardless of how fantastic their music may be or not.
I can't conceive of anything more anti-Metal than neonazism, really. Blind obedience hand in hand with fear and brainlessness.

[FuneralCircle]

Well, I accept that people can enjoy the music alone and detach from the other aspects of a band, but I personally cannot concerning this particular issue. Nazism and racism just totally kill a band for me. Bands that are really Nazi or that support bigotry, such as Arghoslent or Grand Belial's Key, are definitely scrapped from my book regardless of how fantastic their music may be or not.
I can't conceive of anything more anti-Metal than neonazism, really. Blind obedience hand in hand with fear and brainlessness.

Yup, it just can't get any more blatantly obvious... Plus, ROSS THE BOSS is Jewish too I read? Well fuck man, more reason to give these fucking Nazi pigs the finger!!!

They can't expect to choose a lifestyle as if they are in a salad bar and not get ripped on for it. I mean, even Metalheads tell them to fuck off... Shit, man.