The Corroseum forum (new design under construction)

this one made me laugh so hard.

glockose wrote:No question they are both idiots.

glockose wrote: Yes I am in this to make money

I want to make a little statement to follow up on what John said here. Sure he sells records to make money. But anyone that really know John will agree this is not completely true. Look at the cool gifts he gave to folks on this forum just because he felt like it! Some that would normally sell for quite a bit of cash. Not many would do that. And John has given me records before in other cool deals we have made in the past.

ALL the bands that had a record on OPM Records got paid very well. I don't pretend to know many of his dealings, but I know the IRON CROSS guys are VERY pleased with the deal they made with John and made it quite plain to me when I met Rex at the CMF #1 they would never forget it.

Anyone that has a small label is in it to make some money. Some want to make more than others. Most don't make much (if any) and it can barely justify the hassle and grief we go through sometime. But some of us keep doing it regardless.

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on another subject, King in case you didn't know who this is it is Rob Preston Doomed Planet Records, I also don't sign my posts often since I thought everyone would know my id, it has been the same for 10 years.

Two quick things:
1- the min. wage in the mid 80s was alot less than $5.50/hr. The federal minimum wage only got raised above $5.50 in July of last year (now $5.85, was $5.15, according to a quick google search). When I was flipping hamburgers in the early 90s, I started at min wage and it was about $4.25/hr. Summer of '95 I still was not making $5/hr; we were hiring new people that summer and offering a starting wage of $4.90/hr, which was slightly more than min. wage (they were really desperate for new hires at the time). State min. wage level varies.
I don't mean to nit-pick the earlier post, but if folks are trying to do some rough calculations, there's a big difference btwn $4.25 and $5.50/hr.; at $4.25/hr, working fifty 40-hour weeks a year, your annual salary before taxes was $8,500, which I assure everyone is not much to live on in the USA in the early 90s

2- I've noticed alot of people's comments include a phrase regarding "shitty bootlegs"... what about nicely-done bootlegs? Some are very well done with great sound, nice, full booklets, etc. Since I've seen some people rant about poorly-done legit cd reissues, I'm wondering how much of the outrage over bootlegs is due to their unethical nature, and how much is just due to the fact that some people get mad if an item has anything less than state-of-the-art production and a 24-page full-color booklet detailing the band's entire existence? Please note that I'm not aiming my comments at anyone and I'm not trying to start trouble; but I do wonder if some people's outrage has less to do with ethics and more to do with poor quality.

doomedplanet wrote:

glockose wrote: Yes I am in this to make money

I want to make a little statement to follow up on what John said here. Sure he sells records to make money. But anyone that really know John will agree this is not completely true. Look at the cool gifts he gave to folks on this forum just because he felt like it! Some that would normally sell for quite a bit of cash. Not many would do that. And John has given me records before in other cool deals we have made in the past.

ALL the bands that had a record on OPM Records got paid very well. I don't pretend to know many of his dealings, but I know the IRON CROSS guys are VERY pleased with the deal they made with John and made it quite plain to me when I met Rex at the CMF #1 they would never forget it.

Anyone that has a small label is in it to make some money. Some want to make more than others. Most don't make much (if any) and it can barely justify the hassle and grief we go through sometime. But some of us keep doing it regardless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
on another subject, King in case you didn't know who this is it is Rob Preston Doomed Planet Records, I also don't sign my posts often since I thought everyone would know my id, it has been the same for 10 years.

hey rob, long time no talk! how are you?

nightsblood wrote:Two quick things:
1- the min. wage in the mid 80s was alot less than $5.50/hr. The federal minimum wage only got raised above $5.50 in July of last year (now $5.85, was $5.15, according to a quick google search). When I was flipping hamburgers in the early 90s, I started at min wage and it was about $4.25/hr. Summer of '95 I still was not making $5/hr; we were hiring new people that summer and offering a starting wage of $4.90/hr, which was slightly more than min. wage (they were really desperate for new hires at the time). State min. wage level varies.
I don't mean to nit-pick the earlier post, but if folks are trying to do some rough calculations, there's a big difference btwn $4.25 and $5.50/hr.; at $4.25/hr, working fifty 40-hour weeks a year, your annual salary before taxes was $8,500, which I assure everyone is not much to live on in the USA in the early 90s

2- I've noticed alot of people's comments include a phrase regarding "shitty bootlegs"... what about nicely-done bootlegs? Some are very well done with great sound, nice, full booklets, etc. Since I've seen some people rant about poorly-done legit cd reissues, I'm wondering how much of the outrage over bootlegs is due to their unethical nature, and how much is just due to the fact that some people get mad if an item has anything less than state-of-the-art production and a 24-page full-color booklet detailing the band's entire existence? Please note that I'm not aiming my comments at anyone and I'm not trying to start trouble; but I do wonder if some people's outrage has less to do with ethics and more to do with poor quality.

i just got a problem with anyone owning a bootleg record of any kind that HATES bootleggers! so much hypocrisy in all of this, either accept it or don't but FOR GOD SAKE don't stand on the fence, that really makes people look a hypocrite and full of themself!

nightsblood wrote:Two quick things:
1- the min. wage in the mid 80s was alot less than $5.50/hr. The federal minimum wage only got raised above $5.50 in July of last year (now $5.85, was $5.15, according to a quick google search). When I was flipping hamburgers in the early 90s, I started at min wage and it was about $4.25/hr. Summer of '95 I still was not making $5/hr; we were hiring new people that summer and offering a starting wage of $4.90/hr, which was slightly more than min. wage (they were really desperate for new hires at the time). State min. wage level varies.
I don't mean to nit-pick the earlier post, but if folks are trying to do some rough calculations, there's a big difference btwn $4.25 and $5.50/hr.; at $4.25/hr, working fifty 40-hour weeks a year, your annual salary before taxes was $8,500, which I assure everyone is not much to live on in the USA in the early 90s

You are 100% correct sir Min in 1986 was $3.35($6968)
Hell I was makin $8.00 and was still broke
A single room studio in NY was $700+, Plus utilities

Korgüll wrote:

Shadow Kingdom wrote:You see... this is the problem we have... too much assuming. MANILLA ROAD used to make a lot of money in the 80's being on Black Dragon.

That's right! So you are assuming they DID make a lot of money!??

I couldn't imagine they would have made much at all...

There is no way that Black Dragon would have given them $100K to record back then...

A lot of money from making a record to metalheads is much different from what Metallica thinks is a lot of money....

Really guys, we're talking about the underground... you can't compare it to $100,000 deal... those are few and far between...

And they were a 3 piece band.....

Being MANILLA ROAD they were making a lot of money in "underground status".

Please ask Mark the next time you talk to him as now I would really like to know.

My guess:
They got $3-$5k for every release they sent BD and then promissed some royalties that they might have ben ripped a little on.

THIS IS ONLY A GUESS AS I HAVE NO IDEA

When I was in a shitty black metal band that signed to 'Head Not Found' in 1996, we'd already done the recording on the cheap & were sent $1000 from the label to pay for it, & 30 copies to sell personally.

& also promised (in contract) for a gatefold vinyl & royalties!

I havent seen a cent since!

glockose wrote:Please ask Mark the next time you talk to him as now I would really like to know.

My guess:
They got $3-$5k for every release they sent BD and then promissed some royalties that they might have ben ripped a little on.

THIS IS ONLY A GUESS AS I HAVE NO IDEA

I really don't want to be posting up band's personal financial deals on a messageboard. If he wants to, then that's up to him.

If he did get what you think he got back then, then that's good money in my book.... for the underground that is....

On a side note, did you get my email?

mailed today

doomedplanet wrote:

glockose wrote: Yes I am in this to make money

I want to make a little statement to follow up on what John said here. Sure he sells records to make money. But anyone that really know John will agree this is not completely true. Look at the cool gifts he gave to folks on this forum just because he felt like it! Some that would normally sell for quite a bit of cash. Not many would do that. And John has given me records before in other cool deals we have made in the past.

ALL the bands that had a record on OPM Records got paid very well. I don't pretend to know many of his dealings, but I know the IRON CROSS guys are VERY pleased with the deal they made with John and made it quite plain to me when I met Rex at the CMF #1 they would never forget it.

Anyone that has a small label is in it to make some money. Some want to make more than others. Most don't make much (if any) and it can barely justify the hassle and grief we go through sometime. But some of us keep doing it regardless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
on another subject, King in case you didn't know who this is it is Rob Preston Doomed Planet Records, I also don't sign my posts often since I thought everyone would know my id, it has been the same for 10 years.

hehehe, nothing wrong with making money. and i strongly believe that mr. john is a honest seller and good fellow. i'm just wondering though what does he consider as a "logical" profit. for example, if he comes with 100 copies of a rare album, let's say for a buck each, this means 100 dollars. sure he could put them in the bank(don't know the rate in US banks). don't know either if he could invest them in the stock market. sure he couldn't buy a land property with them. let alone the fact that these activities are usually tax free(meaning the sales of vinyls).
in my place, a logical profit from the business is 'round 10-15%. it's only bigger for vegetables, for obvious reasons, although the farmers are still taking it deep in the arse. vinyls, sure, last longer than fresh vegetables. in cases where the profit is much more, the local authorities will start investigations, let alone the competition which supposedly keep the prices down.

now, if mr. john sells one record of them for $100 this makes a 9900% profit. is this logical and above all ethical? although i could guess his answer, i want to focus more on b.e. (before ebay) days....

Black Axe wrote:I did some research (a year or so ago), and though I didn't find any word from the band, but I did find proof that at least 4 of their releases are 100% bootlegs and only the Gorgon release is legal. So I doubt they would've taken the effort finding the original band. If finding the band was so easy, other labels would've released it sooner.

I believe one of the bootlegs they released was by the German band Warhammer. I think they mentioned it on their site about a year ago.

I believe this is the same label too:
http://drakkar666.forumactif.com/rip-of ... e-t261.htm

.

The person from Arsenal of Glory I was in contact with was called Carolyn Barrera or something.

hload wrote:
now, if mr. john sells one record of them for $100 this makes a 9900% profit. is this logical and above all ethical? although i could guess his answer, i want to focus more on b.e. (before ebay) days....

OK
I dont know if the world is ready for this but, You asked for it.

How much profit did I make on tracking a band and purchasing there records?

First I never paid $1 each for anything (Standard was $5-$10) with some being much higher (ex. Loosely Tight 20 copies @ $70 each)


I think this is a good example so I will tell this one if there is another story you would like to hear let me know.

Madd Hatter -

In 1994 I sold a copy for $450 a few months later I found the band and purchased 200 copies @ $10 each ($2000 + shipping) I then contacted the buyer(450) and gave him 350 in credit since I was going to put the MH in my next list for $100 each

When the list came out I sold around 10 copies for $100 each(1000)

At the time before Ebay (the days of lists) I was mailing 400+ list most overseas($2 each postage) maybe 550-600 in stamps + time + printing(photocopy)

as some of you old timers know, I would only put out the same list once a year so for the next 9 months or so MH was not for sale and not in a list

By the end of the year and wanting to at least break even on the MH deal we sold 25 copies to a German dealer for $25 each (625) STILL NOT EVEN @ 1 year

YES we paid TAXES on the money for these lists. You could hide some in the old days since people paid cash but today with Paypal NO ONE PAYS CASH so YES you (I / WE ) pay taxes on this money. This was 1 reason for starting the label but that is another story.

The following year and list we sold maybe 5-6 copies (100 each) as the German dealer had already sold to most of the big buyers. (Yes we made money at this point) But we were still not rich.

again at the end of the year the German dealer purchases another 25 @ 25 (625) Now to me this was profit after a 2 year investment we made some money.

I still to this day have copies of Madd Hatter and when I put one on ebay (every 6 months) I get 50-70 for it so I now make 100-150 a year from that record 10 years later

Yes I made a good profit over the years but it is NOT 200 x 100 = 20,000 don't be fooled it just doesn't work that way

And during the time when the LP was in my list for 100 if someone said I would like that but for 50 I would always say YES

Now stories like this are over. the days of finding a band and getting records are done. Most USA bands have already been found and the ones that have not now have the internet and sell them for them selves on Ebay

A point I would also like to make is I always tried to keep the price of the record the same or going up. I never wanted a person to purchase a record and then loose money. I could have made more money (faster) buy the 3-4 year selling them for 50 each but the folks that purchased them for 100 would not be happy so you hold out and the sake of the collector NOT trying to make more money as I said 1) if someone made an offer I took it 2) I still have copies when I could have dumped them all a long time ago (flooding the market and dropping the price)

Now I am tired any questions send them
I have NO PROBLEM telling anyone how things work on my side

Hell I made good money over the years and that is why I can give away free records today

And I can honestly say we NEVER made any money on OPM releases (Every band made a lot more then me)

Awesome post Glock-! I think your example really illustrates something that many folks forget- there is a BIG financial investment by dealers/small labels and it takes alot of time just to break even on most releases. Too many people think the only cost to the dealer/label is the pressing cost of ca. $1-2 per disc, and so selling them at $8 each is putting $6 back in your pocket. Obviously that's not the case.