Your opinions on...

[Korgüll]

well i don't think that bootleggin knows any country.....i can write a lot of US and german bootleggs also.....

True, good point...

but lets face it, the modern stigma sits with those countries unfortunately... they are now FAMOUS for it.
...especially for the NWOBCD's (new wave of bootleg c d's) on tradelists & ebay etc these days...

No offense to any of the posters on this forum (metalmaster )

[metalmaster]

Well, lets see Mr Korgull...

I did not send the message directly to King because I want from him a public answer to all his bootlegging activities over the years. I find very hipocrite and even shameless to boot albums when you claim to be a real Metal fan, a defender of faith, complain about hammerfalls vocalist and all that crap well all know he loves to say.

If you read well, King has not answered my questions in more than one time so, we can understand that King accepts he is a bastard bootlegger who simply has no arguments so, simply he wont answer... filthy rat

So Mexico is a bootleg paradise? And so what? The problem is not the country where boots are made, but this King guy who makes me puke with his two sided moral. Man, if Kingy is your friend, then you choose your friends better, a two faced guy is never trusteable.

And do you know what is even more funny???? He know that he can bootleg many albums, but he can be sure that none will boot the albums of his bands, because both bandas are so shitty that none would ever buy those pieces of crap.

I could tell names and even addresses of bootleggers in germany, USA, Greece, Brazil, Poland, Che Rep, Colombia, Mexico, Portugal, Italy, Sweden, Canada, France and of course this Aldo guy who is a friend of King, even when he denies that...Anyway, i'm sure most of us, know about who are those guys...

No Bload, I dont think the comments of Korgull are not racist, I think he tried to make an example of a country making boots...The fuuny thing also is the fact that it may happen that in Australia and New Zeland or anywhere else where is not possible to make bootlegs, I'm 1000% sure that there, in those countries are many guys who would die to print some boot stuff... but they simply cant, but if they had the chance, they would do it without thinking twice

SO, NO RESPONSE FROM YOU KING? Ok, I close this, and undestrand that King Flowley accepts that he is a filthy and cinical bootlegger like Aldo (Volve)... and has no moral status to open his mouth and accuse anyone else, but himself.

[Black Axe]

SO, NO RESPONSE FROM YOU KING? Ok, I close this, and undestrand that King Flowley accepts that he is a filthy and cinical bootlegger like Aldo (Volve)... and has no moral status to open his mouth and accuse anyone else, but himself.

I doubt Mr. Fowley reads this topic every day.

[kingfowley]

thanks to matt for sending me this link!

i have nothing to do with keltic records
he emailed me and asked me about witchcross and if he could release it, i said
i dont own any rights'. he put it out, put me on it i guess to cover his tracks and that he 'licensed it' from me. he didnt, the guy does what he does
and i don't appreciate him putting my information on his cd at all!
bullshit people, i don't need any of it! he even sent me some copies of the cd when it was done, i guess again to feel better about his ways/self

please don't get me involved with this thanks!

any questions
king@upthetombstones.com

just ask me

thanks

cheers to all
king

But I think your pressings are not so legal, or are they? If they are legal, man you make a very bad work: unexisting retoration/mastering, horrible layout, not to mention the printing quality... And if I remeber well, one Wild Dogs was a cdr!! So, why do you complain about this botlegger if you DO THE VERY SAME???

If I'm not mistaken, this guy Aldo (bettre know as Volve) mentioned more than one time that he got the right from you to release Satans Host and Witchcross, also mentioned he got the right for Violent Force from you...

ok first this post...

those are matt from wild dogs, wild dogs reissues, not mine
cdrs because varney would not let him release them as 'real' cds, not mine!
again i have given no 'right's for keltic records.
i've stated that earlier!

i will always answer ANY question/questions but as someone mentioned i don't come here veryday. i have a family, work and i try and find time for computer stuff outside of my normal day. thanks to tom for pointing this stuff out to me that got me here!

[kingfowley]

oh and to comment on this.. "King even sells licences of albums he is not the owner", that is a blatant 100% lie. i've never sold any rights to anyone NOR CLAIMED TO HAVE. if a label puts 'licensed by old metal' on their product, that's them bullshitting you, not me bullshitting ANYONE!!!

albums he is not the owner. So, dont tell me he does everything just for love to Metal. Other wise he would buy the rights, print quality remasterd cds at low prices.

The bands have no right to give any permission to anyone if they are not the executive producers of the albums, simply because they didnt pay fo the production of that record. Of course they are the holders of composition.

oh and to comment on this.. "King even sells licences of albums he is not the owner", that is a blatant 100% lie. i've never sold any rights to anyone NOR CLAIMED TO HAVE. if a label puts 'licensed by old metal' on their product, that's them bullshitting you, not me bullshitting ANYONE!!!

In these case whats going on with the KELTIC RECORDS (from Chile) re issues?

this guy boasts and claim he payed thousands of dollars to OLD METAL Records for the ''EXCLUSIVE'' licences a lot of bootlegs he re issued for Southamerica , WITCHCROSS , SATAN'S HOST , GRIFFIN , BLESSED DEATH (even this guy sold the licence of Destined For Extinction to Piccoroco Records in a big amount of money ! )

Now this guy have just released a bootleg of
SODOM - Obsessed By Cruelty / In The Sign Of Evil / Rehearsal 1985 [ORIGINAL RECORDINGS]

Features the first original recording of "Obsessed By Cruelty", the original vinyl mastering of "In The Sign Of Evil" and a bonus rare 1985 Rehearsal (see below for complete track list). Features lyrics, the original artwork from both releases and dozens of rare photos. Kamikaze Products , Japan

if you take the Disc and look in on reverse you will a code and then .CL , it means is Chilean manufactured.[/quote]

King Fowley is a first grade bootlegger, while Aldo (Volve) is just a second grade bootlegger... A boot of a boot!!! [/quote]

call me a bootlegger all you want, you know fucking ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
so you're typing and talking without any knowledge of me
and your accusations is really ignorant!

i ask you,don't assume things please

it's really simple, just ask me!
thanks!

[kingfowley]

Well, lets see Mr Korgull...

I did not send the message directly to King because I want from him a public answer to all his bootlegging activities over the years. I find very hipocrite and even shameless to boot albums when you claim to be a real Metal fan, a defender of faith, complain about hammerfalls vocalist and all that crap well all know he loves to say.

If you read well, King has not answered my questions in more than one time so, we can understand that King accepts he is a bastard bootlegger who simply has no arguments so, simply he wont answer... filthy rat

So Mexico is a bootleg paradise? And so what? The problem is not the country where boots are made, but this King guy who makes me puke with his two sided moral. Man, if Kingy is your friend, then you choose your friends better, a two faced guy is never trusteable.

And do you know what is even more funny???? He know that he can bootleg many albums, but he can be sure that none will boot the albums of his bands, because both bandas are so shitty that none would ever buy those pieces of crap.

I could tell names and even addresses of bootleggers in germany, USA, Greece, Brazil, Poland, Che Rep, Colombia, Mexico, Portugal, Italy, Sweden, Canada, France and of course this Aldo guy who is a friend of King, even when he denies that...Anyway, i'm sure most of us, know about who are those guys...

No Bload, I dont think the comments of Korgull are not racist, I think he tried to make an example of a country making boots...The fuuny thing also is the fact that it may happen that in Australia and New Zeland or anywhere else where is not possible to make bootlegs, I'm 1000% sure that there, in those countries are many guys who would die to print some boot stuff... but they simply cant, but if they had the chance, they would do it without thinking twice

SO, NO RESPONSE FROM YOU KING? Ok, I close this, and undestrand that King Flowley accepts that he is a filthy and cinical bootlegger like Aldo (Volve)... and has no moral status to open his mouth and accuse anyone else, but himself.

and here my friend i am!

answer to what bootlegs?

only things i have done that were unofficial is q5 'steel the light' i had heard rights were in public domain at time and we did it. high vaultage got in touch and had bought those rights back so i pulled it right after!

xcursion 'ready to roll' was unofficial because again there was no rights for it and it was public domain. so it came out.
i have a friend whose cool with mark slaughter and he was very pleased anybody cared enough to put it out on their own coin and could care less it came out, even told the guy to thank me.

witchfinder general burning a sinner single was unnofficial. a partner at the time said 'fuck it' and did it, he was sick of overpriced copies floating around and thought it was cool! it was pressed 300 7 inches and thats it. that partner and i are no longer in buisness together but remain good friends!


what else?

sound barrier, cool
rigor mortis, cool
sorcey, cool
dr mastermind , cool
griffin, cool
sleepy hollow, cool
fingernails, cool
aggression, cool
witchcross, cool
wild dogs, cool (minus liar jeff marks)
laaz rockit, cool (now pulled as they've all been rereleased with bands reformation)
rat attack, cool
maltese falcon, cool
cirith ungol, cool
blessed death, cool (minus the pico records boot of destined for extinction
that the guy put my logo on)
iron angel, cool
premonition, cool


???

so tell me about all my great 'bootlegs'?
EVERYTHING I RELEASED HAS MY NAME AND ADDRESS RIGHT ON IT!!!!!!

i do sell bootlegs in my distro, because i collect em and people always ask for em!
people love em! how many people reading/posting own a bootleg cd/lp etc?
i wonder the honesty of that answer

???

but as for me a 'bootlegger', everyone that pays attention knows the greeks are doing em all! and south american folks right behind em!

you really like to put out alot of false statements man!
if you think i'm a hypocrite or two faced, you obviously don't know me!
which makes you the PERFECT PERSON to sit here and type your words
because obviously you know my life and every move because you don't know me!

i aint hear to throw names, argue, have a pissing fit
you choose some strong words when talking of me


but thanks for your time
and thanks to the folks who never assume shit

this metalmaster guy is really out of hand!
my band deceased should be down in mexico in a few months
maybe you and i can sit down and talk and then you can make your decision about knowing me! thanks



always here and never backing down or away
truth always sets a person free!


thanks to all here for the right reasons

sincerely

king fowley

[kingfowley]

albums he is not the owner. So, dont tell me he does everything just for love to Metal. Other wise he would buy the rights, print quality remasterd cds at low prices.

The bands have no right to give any permission to anyone if they are not the executive producers of the albums, simply because they didnt pay fo the production of that record. Of course they are the holders of composition.

oh and to comment on this.. "King even sells licences of albums he is not the owner", that is a blatant 100% lie. i've never sold any rights to anyone NOR CLAIMED TO HAVE. if a label puts 'licensed by old metal' on their product, that's them bullshitting you, not me bullshitting ANYONE!!!

In these case whats going on with the KELTIC RECORDS (from Chile) re issues?

this guy boasts and claim he payed thousands of dollars to OLD METAL Records for the ''EXCLUSIVE'' licences a lot of bootlegs he re issued for Southamerica , WITCHCROSS , SATAN'S HOST , GRIFFIN , BLESSED DEATH (even this guy sold the licence of Destined For Extinction to Piccoroco Records in a big amount of money ! )

Now this guy have just released a bootleg of
SODOM - Obsessed By Cruelty / In The Sign Of Evil / Rehearsal 1985 [ORIGINAL RECORDINGS]

Features the first original recording of "Obsessed By Cruelty", the original vinyl mastering of "In The Sign Of Evil" and a bonus rare 1985 Rehearsal (see below for complete track list). Features lyrics, the original artwork from both releases and dozens of rare photos. Kamikaze Products , Japan

if you take the Disc and look in on reverse you will a code and then .CL , it means is Chilean manufactured.

King Fowley is a first grade bootlegger, while Aldo (Volve) is just a second grade bootlegger... A boot of a boot!!! [/quote]

call me a bootlegger all you want, you know fucking ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
so you're typing and talking without any knowledge of me
and your accusations are really ignorant!

i ask you,don't assume things please

it's really simple, just ask me!
thanks![/quote]

[Black Axe]

i do sell bootlegs in my distro, because i collect em and people always ask for em!
people love em! how many people reading/posting own a bootleg cd/lp etc?
i wonder the honesty of that answer

I'm not supporting metalmaster but selling bootlegs is almost just as bad as making them(some sympathy if it's are clearly noted in the distro catalogue).

[kingfowley]

i do sell bootlegs in my distro, because i collect em and people always ask for em!
people love em! how many people reading/posting own a bootleg cd/lp etc?
i wonder the honesty of that answer

I'm not supporting metalmaster but selling bootlegs is almost just as bad as making them(some sympathy if it's are clearly noted in the distro catalogue).

OH I ALWAYS TELL FOLKS IF ITS NOT A REAL DEAL OR NOT

ALOT OF FOLKS DEMANDED THE BOOTLEGS FOR SALE
AND MANY BANDS THAT ARE ON 'LEGIT' RELEASES ARE BEING RIPPED OFF BY THE LABELS! NEW RENNISANCE FOR EXPAMPLE, EVEN METAL BLADE!
I TALKED WITH KURT WITCHKILLER A FEW WEEKS BACK AND BOY HE CANT BELIEVE THEIR STUFF IS STILL BEING SOLD BY METAL BLADE THOUGH THE CONTRACT RAN OUT OVER 15 YEARS AGO!

MARK REALE SAID THE SAME OF RIOT CDS!

DON'T ALWAYS BELEIVE THAT RECORD LABELS THAT ARE WELL KNOWN AINT RUNNING SCAMS MY FRIEND!

RELAPSE DID IT WITH US AND BEING AROUND A MILLION AND ONE BANDS
ON MANY BIG, SMALL LABELS, THERE'S ALOT OF NONSENSE IN THAT CRAP TOO!

TO ME SELLING BOOTLEGS IS JUST FOR FOLKS WHO ENJOY EM! THE BANDS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ASK THEM TO BE PULLED AND IF A BAND WOULD ASK ME ON ANYTHING I SELL, I WOULD

YEARS AGO HAD AN EXCITER H.M MANIAC CD I WAS SELLING. JON FROM EXCITER WAS SO EXICTED WHEN HE SAW IT HE BOUGH ALL 4 COPIES WE HAD AT THE TABLE! HE THEN SAID 'I WISH THIS WAS LEGALLY ABLE TO COME OUT LEGIT BUT IT NEVER WILL BE'. HE BITCHED ABOUT THE PRICE KILLERS VERSION SOMEWHAT THEN HE TOLD A FRIEND OF MINE HOW IMPORTANT DID THE 2 ON 1 CD YEARS BACK AND THEY NEVER SAW A CENT AND NEVER HAD A CONTRACT WITH THEM TO RELEASE IT!



JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY DO YOU OWN ANY BOOTLEGS AT ALL ON ANY FORMAT?
I LOVE HAVING LIVE TPAES OF BANDS I LOVE AND CDS OF STUFF NOT AVAILABLE ON THAT FORMAT PERSONALLY!

CHEERS

[The Knell]

CAPS LOCK

[Black Axe]

OH I ALWAYS TELL FOLKS IF ITS NOT A REAL DEAL OR NOT

Always, without being asked? Most distro's only tell you if you ask them.

ALOT OF FOLKS DEMANDED THE BOOTLEGS FOR SALE
AND MANY BANDS THAT ARE ON 'LEGIT' RELEASES ARE BEING RIPPED OFF BY THE LABELS! NEW RENNISANCE FOR EXPAMPLE, EVEN METAL BLADE!
I TALKED WITH KURT WITCHKILLER A FEW WEEKS BACK AND BOY HE CANT BELIEVE THEIR STUFF IS STILL BEING SOLD BY METAL BLADE THOUGH THE CONTRACT RAN OUT OVER 15 YEARS AGO!

MARK REALE SAID THE SAME OF RIOT CDS!

DON'T ALWAYS BELEIVE THAT RECORD LABELS THAT ARE WELL KNOWN AINT RUNNING SCAMS MY FRIEND!

RELAPSE DID IT WITH US AND BEING AROUND A MILLION AND ONE BANDS
ON MANY BIG, SMALL LABELS, THERE'S ALOT OF NONSENSE IN THAT CRAP TOO!

I know well known labels bullshit bands all the time too, but that doesn't justify bootlegging in anyway. And people demanding bootlegs for sale are worthless.

I'm not sure, but aren't the CDs sold by Metal Blade from the original prints, which makes it legal for them to still sell it??

TO ME SELLING BOOTLEGS IS JUST FOR FOLKS WHO ENJOY EM! THE BANDS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ASK THEM TO BE PULLED AND IF A BAND WOULD ASK ME ON ANYTHING I SELL, I WOULD

YEARS AGO HAD AN EXCITER H.M MANIAC CD I WAS SELLING. JON FROM EXCITER WAS SO EXICTED WHEN HE SAW IT HE BOUGH ALL 4 COPIES WE HAD AT THE TABLE! HE THEN SAID 'I WISH THIS WAS LEGALLY ABLE TO COME OUT LEGIT BUT IT NEVER WILL BE'. HE BITCHED ABOUT THE PRICE KILLERS VERSION SOMEWHAT THEN HE TOLD A FRIEND OF MINE HOW IMPORTANT DID THE 2 ON 1 CD YEARS BACK AND THEY NEVER SAW A CENT AND NEVER HAD A CONTRACT WITH THEM TO RELEASE IT!

You probably sell bootlegs for a budget price. But if you sell bootlegs not coming from decent people you are supporting the original criminal/bootlegger who sell them for high prices elsewhere and do it just for ripping people off and making money.

JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY DO YOU OWN ANY BOOTLEGS AT ALL ON ANY FORMAT?
I LOVE HAVING LIVE TPAES OF BANDS I LOVE AND CDS OF STUFF NOT AVAILABLE ON THAT FORMAT PERSONALLY!

CHEERS

Yes, I do own some bootlegs. But I always found out afterwards that they were, making me mad as hell.

I have some CD-Rs of live tapes and such, but nothing I had to pay for or that was officially available.

[kingfowley]

OH I ALWAYS TELL FOLKS IF ITS NOT A REAL DEAL OR NOT

Always, without being asked? Most distro's only tell you if you ask them.

ALOT OF FOLKS DEMANDED THE BOOTLEGS FOR SALE
AND MANY BANDS THAT ARE ON 'LEGIT' RELEASES ARE BEING RIPPED OFF BY THE LABELS! NEW RENNISANCE FOR EXPAMPLE, EVEN METAL BLADE!
I TALKED WITH KURT WITCHKILLER A FEW WEEKS BACK AND BOY HE CANT BELIEVE THEIR STUFF IS STILL BEING SOLD BY METAL BLADE THOUGH THE CONTRACT RAN OUT OVER 15 YEARS AGO!

MARK REALE SAID THE SAME OF RIOT CDS!

DON'T ALWAYS BELEIVE THAT RECORD LABELS THAT ARE WELL KNOWN AINT RUNNING SCAMS MY FRIEND!

RELAPSE DID IT WITH US AND BEING AROUND A MILLION AND ONE BANDS
ON MANY BIG, SMALL LABELS, THERE'S ALOT OF NONSENSE IN THAT CRAP TOO!

I know well known labels bullshit bands all the time too, but that doesn't justify bootlegging in anyway. And people demanding bootlegs for sale are worthless.

I'm not sure, but aren't the CDs sold by Metal Blade from the original prints, which makes it legal for them to still sell it??

TO ME SELLING BOOTLEGS IS JUST FOR FOLKS WHO ENJOY EM! THE BANDS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ASK THEM TO BE PULLED AND IF A BAND WOULD ASK ME ON ANYTHING I SELL, I WOULD

YEARS AGO HAD AN EXCITER H.M MANIAC CD I WAS SELLING. JON FROM EXCITER WAS SO EXICTED WHEN HE SAW IT HE BOUGH ALL 4 COPIES WE HAD AT THE TABLE! HE THEN SAID 'I WISH THIS WAS LEGALLY ABLE TO COME OUT LEGIT BUT IT NEVER WILL BE'. HE BITCHED ABOUT THE PRICE KILLERS VERSION SOMEWHAT THEN HE TOLD A FRIEND OF MINE HOW IMPORTANT DID THE 2 ON 1 CD YEARS BACK AND THEY NEVER SAW A CENT AND NEVER HAD A CONTRACT WITH THEM TO RELEASE IT!

You probably sell bootlegs for a budget price. But if you sell bootlegs not coming from decent people you are supporting the original criminal/bootlegger who sell them for high prices elsewhere and do it just for ripping people off and making money.

JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY DO YOU OWN ANY BOOTLEGS AT ALL ON ANY FORMAT?
I LOVE HAVING LIVE TPAES OF BANDS I LOVE AND CDS OF STUFF NOT AVAILABLE ON THAT FORMAT PERSONALLY!

CHEERS

Yes, I do own some bootlegs. But I always found out afterwards that they were, making me mad as hell.

I have some CD-Rs of live tapes and such, but nothing I had to pay for or that was officially available.

i am an honest guy!
anyone who knows me will tell you that
too honest! i say what i feel always

yes i tell folks i tell em whats on it, if its offiical and how good it sounds!
they trust my judgement and appreciate the time spent telling them of what they are purchasing


yeah but witchkiller contract isnt valid .but people keep buying it and metal blade keeps pressing it. same with riot discs.
let's call a spade a spade, under 'reborn classics' label or a much more respected metal blade records! no one can keep making stuff under a contract when the agreement signed runs out.




to me anyone making a bootleg is a crook, if they are a nice guy or a complete jerk! so yeah its selling unofficial stuff either way! people love the stuff and i collect too so i carry it! and yes its at a fair price, anyone who saw my lps for sale list knows i aint in this for the $!

[Shadow Kingdom]

King does have a point.

If a label rips off a band, it's a bootleg too. So how can we all define bootleg and non bootleg? Can anyone make up some good guidlines as to how we all should support this grey area stuff? Something we can all agree on? I don't think that's possible and hence why this debate is always endless.

Am I a bad person for selling WITCHKILLER if it's not a valid contract? How the hell am I supposed to keep up with eveything? Should I demand copies of contracts for every CD I sell in the store? I'll never be able to survive if I took the time to do all that.

The problem is that stores, ebay, etc can only do so much to slow it all down, but it's never going to be stopped. We all have bootlegs in our collection, so we're all hypocrites.

What if a band doesn't care if their album is bootlegged, is it ok to sell it then?

There's not enough labels out there to keep pressing all this rare shit. + not only that finding the bands is tricky and next to impossible sometimes. Some people still don't get online.

So if King has the contact to WITCH CROSS, get intouch and put it out again with the 7" as a bonus.

Bootlegs wouldn't be such a big problem if people sold them for $2-$3 bucks a pop. I think the big problem is that there's some major bootleggers making THOUSANDS of DOLLARS selling shit for the same price and official CD is without paying for a good layout, artwork, or the band, so it's all profit just about...

If a label like Shrapnel is going to ruin band's careers by keeping the rights forever, then it should be bootlegged. That's pure greed that needs to be stopped also.

Go after the big fish I say, Marshall Levy, The Germans, The Greeks, Vegas CDs... that will stop a lot of it.

Just some more thoughts to ponder on...

[DaN]

Isn't it TAD bit overdramatic to point fingers at Old Metal and shout "BOOTLEGGERS!!"? The Holy Crusade Against Evil Bootlegs is all good & well, but anyone in their right mind have got to see the difference between the OMR releases and the "NWOBCD"-stuff. I think King has explained it many times over by now. Or does anyone still see a Great Moneygrubbing Scheme behind it all?

At worst the releases could be considered a bit rushed and overenthusiastic, but when OMR started out there really wasn't a blueprint on the best way to re-release old classic Metal. Practically no one where doing it at the time.

[Black Axe]

i am an honest guy!
anyone who knows me will tell you that
too honest! i say what i feel always

yes i tell folks i tell em whats on it, if its offiical and how good it sounds!
they trust my judgement and appreciate the time spent telling them of what they are purchasing

to me anyone making a bootleg is a crook, if they are a nice guy or a complete jerk! so yeah its selling unofficial stuff either way! people love the stuff and i collect too so i carry it! and yes its at a fair price, anyone who saw my lps for sale list knows i aint in this for the $!

I know you're a honest guy, but I know some other honest people who still don't mention these things when you buy from them.

yeah but witchkiller contract isnt valid .but people keep buying it and metal blade keeps pressing it. same with riot discs.
let's call a spade a spade, under 'reborn classics' label or a much more respected metal blade records! no one can keep making stuff under a contract when the agreement signed runs out.

What I meant was that if the CDs that they sell were from the original pressings, than it might be legal. Ofcourse if they're still pressing new CDs it's definitely bootlegging.