The Corroseum forum (new design under construction)

I think we had that kind of "lecturing others would they have to buy and what not" discussion often enough. I personally could live without another one if you don't mind LethylSteel. Better use this useful and necessary thread for the primary topic.

some things to say:

everybody know or is easy to find who are the people who make the bootlegs....
But, all of you have bought or know sellers/people/dealers who sell them !!!

at the end, it makes no difference if you make it, or sell it (the only thing that's different, is how much money you make)....

And of course some of the best dealers around have a LOT to do with this circle of people...

Keep it true record fair is full of boots....
And it's KEEP IT TRUE!!!!!!
It should not allow these people...
but what can they do, when some of the major sellers are good friends?

does it matter that many /most of them are produced by Greeks, and most of Germans sell them?

Almost all dealers deal, or at least dealt sometime with bootlegs (even me traded a few of them back when the "first" ones were released (HELSTAR, HEXX,etc...)...

There's members of this forum, that also have to do with this situation...

There's other members who still support by buying these cd's....

THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO STOP THIS: NEVER BUY ANY BOOTS, AND IN 1 YEAR NOBODY WILL PRESS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, you are wrong in some ways.
There is a difference (as already said before by somebody else) between BOOTLEG and FAKE REPLICA.

Reborn Classics are bootlegs, ok it's wrong but I can accept that (they costed exactly like any other common cd back in time, and still now you can find most of them for cheap). I knew what I was buying and it was ok for me, for example: I bought the Reborn Classic's Helstar 2 in 1. When the CM official reissues were released, I bought them too !

Fake replica's are done ON PURPOSE to fool people into forking big sums for them. That's wrong PLUS morally disgusting.

There's other members who still support by buying these cd's....

No, there are NOT people who want to buy fake replicas like you say. If they do it's because they aren't aware they're not originals. If you refer to resellers, then ok it's another thing.

THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO STOP THIS: NEVER BUY ANY BOOTS, AND IN 1 YEAR NOBODY WILL PRESS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The market is the entire world: you cannot stop it. Impossible to make everybody know.

Ps. Who are the members of the forum into this ? We have to expose them and point fingers. That's what this scum deserves IMHO

i have a sealed Blacklist if anyone interested...
came straight from Milwaukee so i don't think is a boot...

On topic i think those people (the one who make FAKE REPLICA) shall be pointed out in public and get nailed!!

well, ok replicas of course is a LOT worse......
not that the others are ok, but you are 100% right....

as for BLACKLIST, believe me, there's no bootleg of this...
I KNOW THIS FOR SURE, these copies floating around come straight from the band ( a Greek guy got something like 50-1000 copies from the band)..


Anyway,bootlegs are like politics.....The politicians won't change, and there will always be more, even if we hung the ones that are in charge now...It's us who can make the difference......

but this is a hard task, money is so sweet..... They even buy respect.....

So,in one case we have someone making money while the band (the creator of the product sold) gets nothing ,which is better than someone making money while people stupidly fork huge sums out of their pockets to satisfy their ego?Well,stop paying that money my friend!I think it's equally immoral and fraudulent in both cases,stating that an album is a bootleg do not justify the cause..

LethylSteel wrote:
Ahh come on, 100 $ for a record is still an affordable price (if the music is worth that of course) and ok imo because it's still in the limit. If your monthly budget allows you to buy a 500 $ record then your just rich.

So $100 for a record is fine, but $500 is not fine. Is $150 OK? $200? $215.75? Where exactly, to the penny, is the line?

That's so. And why would you have a 500 $ record when you can download the songs for free? Just to say you have that record, nothing more. The excuse "I care for the music" is invalid here. It's just that you can say "I have that record."

Why pay $100 for a record when you can just d/l the songs for free? Just to say you have the record, nothing more.

If you'd care for the music you could buy a shitload of records (and better records) for these 500 $.

If you only care about the music you could buy a shitload of records for $100 instead of just buying one $100 record. And 'better' is completely subjective; everyone has different tastes.

A record that was pressed in a 500 or 1000 copies edition is just not worth 500 $.

It's not just dependent on pressing size.
How many copies survive?
How many people are clamoring for a copy?
Has the record ever been found in quantity, like a band member sold a box of 100 copies?
What is the probability of a large quantity turning up? Foe example, have the band members already been found and sold all their copies, if they had any?

That price was just procreated by greedy collectors who want that record in their collections (that basically only include the mega raries because they just don't care for the other Metal bands) and don't care for the money because they do not NEED to care for the money coz they are rich.

Metal collectors are a notoriously poor bunch overall. There are only a small handful of metal collectors who will pay high prices (> $200) for a large number of different records.
Collectibles of any kind are only worth what someone is willing to pay. If 30 people out there are willing to pay $700 for a real Solar Eagle, then the next 29 copies are gonna sell for $700. If only 2 people are willing to bid that much, then the price is gonna drop when copy #2 hits the auction block.

And that you don't always have to pay the highest price ever to possess a special record depends just on how patient you are.

True, and all of us- rich, poor, and in-between- love to get a rare record for a bargain price. But the truth of the matter is that you are only going to get so many bargains during your lifetime, and they're often going to be for random items, not necessarily for items that you really want. For example, I got a grerat buy on a copy of 'From the Fjords' once, but I do not like that album, so while it was a nice buy it didn't go into my collection. I would much rather get a bargain on a Pentagram 7", but that's never happened. And it may never happen. So, do I sit and wait for 10 years, hoping the Pentagram 7" turns up at a yard sale for $5? What happens if it doesn't show up, do i wait another 10 years? Or do I save up some money and pay a couple of hundred for it so i can enjoy it for the next 10 years?

Patience in a collector is definitely a good trait, but it does have drawbacks. If you insist on being patient and never paying very much for rare collectibles, you face the following limits:
1- your collection will never get very big b/c you'll only find so many bargains. If you're happy with a small collection, no prob.
2- many items you want will never turn up for a bargain price so you'll have to do without them. You'll have to be content with reissues and mp3s.
3- to get the bargains you will have to invest a lot of time and effort into constantly searching for them. This may not be feasible depending on how much time you must dedicate to your job, family, and other matters.

Finally, you can overdo it regarding patience. Perfect example played out THursday night on ebay. There was a very rare Blues record for sale that my dad, who collects blues records, has wanted for decades (literally). He's seen only one other copy for sale several years ago, which he didn't buy and he's been mad at himself ever since for letting it slip away. It was priced very affordably back then, but he wanted it for a bargain, rather than pay a fair price for it, so he let it go and he's been kicking himself ever since.
So here's another copy, in very nice condition, that he has a chance to buy; he spotted the auction as soon as it was listed and got all excited over it. My dad is in his late 60s; he's not gonna be around forever, so his chances of getting the remaining items on his want list are getting slimmer. He's doing alright financially- he's not rich, but he has no debts and he has enough of a retirement plan that he can live quite comfortably. So as the auction winds down, he bids on the record, and his bid ties him for the lead, but of course on ebay when there is a tie the person who bid first stays in the lead. No biggie, all my dad has to do is enter a bid $5 higher and he'll have the lead. Instead of entering another bid, he gets pissed off that the price is now high enough that it's not going to be a bargain. So he refuses to bid again. The auction closes, and no one else bids either. Dad loses the record. $5 extra would have got him a record he's been wanting for decades. $5 extra would have atoned for letting that other copy slip through his fingers years ago. But he decided to be patient in hopes that another copy will show up some day that he can get for a cheaper price. Perhaps you would applaud him for his patience, for his refusal to spend more than that arbitrary amount, and for holding out for a 50 cent copy at a garage sale some day. From my POV, I saw a guy perpetuate a decades-long search for something he would love to have over 5 measly dollars that he could easily afford when there's a very real possibility he'll die without ever having another chance to get a copy.
Moral of the story- Even patience should have limits.

Trigger wrote:So,in one case we have someone making money while the band (the creator of the product sold) gets nothing ,which is better than someone making money while people stupidly fork huge sums out of their pockets to satisfy their ego?Well,stop paying that money my friend!I think it's equally immoral and fraudulent in both cases,stating that an album is a bootleg do not justify the cause..

What is the difference ? Simple: one thing is legal, the other not.

ps. Are you one of "them" ?

Bootlegs are legal? News to me.

what exactly is legal?funny how smart you are in making assumptions!well,you can't discern legal from illegal,that explains a lot....
By the way,morality is something you miss and you focus on man made laws?

Wtf ?!

Just to be clear: selling a GENUINE original item either privately or on eBay is 100% legal.

Making boots/fake replicas + sell them totally NOT.

Are you a private eye?If yes,get another job,this one needs brains and comprehending a simple written post at least!
In case you didn't understand the post (which is more than obvious),the second case I mentioned is the counterfeit record selling.

Not really simple however, maybe you living in Greece brought me to wrong conclusions
Anyway, if I was greek, I would go and beat the crap out of those people ruining a country reputation

nightsblood wrote: Patience in a collector is definitely a good trait, but it does have drawbacks. If you insist on being patient and never paying very much for rare collectibles, you face the following limits:
1- your collection will never get very big b/c you'll only find so many bargains. If you're happy with a small collection, no prob.
2- many items you want will never turn up for a bargain price so you'll have to do without them. You'll have to be content with reissues and mp3s.
3- to get the bargains you will have to invest a lot of time and effort into constantly searching for them. This may not be feasible depending on how much time you must dedicate to your job, family, and other matters.

1. I disagree with that, I only buy bargains for my collection but I have around 2,500 cds in my collection which 95% were gotten for bargain prices ( total value of my collection is about 5 times what I paid for it) but after only one and a half years or so of collecting.

2. This is definitely true, but for me I am really patient and I do not "need" to have any item in my collection, since I can just download it until I find it for a good price.

3. True as well, I do spend a good 2 or so hours per day on average searching for good deals, if I had a job or a family or a life this might not be possible.

On the topic of bootleggers, they are just a bunch of greedy assholes who are somehow allowed to get away with it and not go to jail which is probably why they do that instead of robbing a bank or something. Fuck identical bootlegs that try to imitate the originals, I do not really have much of a problem with say the Reborn classics bootlegs because they didn't try to copy a cd that already existed on cd and made lots of stuff never available on cd before, not saying its good but at least they didn't try to get $500 for them by copying things that already exist and tricking buyers to think they are originals.

slayerhatesusall wrote:
1. I disagree with that, I only buy bargains for my collection but I have around 2,500 cds in my collection which 95% were gotten for bargain prices

There's a BIG difference between CDs and Vinyl.If you collected vinyl I'm almost sure you've got just 5% bargains instead of 95%.