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Black Axe wrote:

stormspell wrote:but I'll take early Mercyful Fate over any Dimmu Borgir any day, any time, and then some.

If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't belong here.

Damn right.

Hahaha, I just found this topic now.

First, ANUS is a horrible site filled with pseudo-intellectuals, never take that site seriously!

Second, the Eastern European bands are Kataxu, Temnozor etc and belong to a "organization" called THE PAGAN FRONT. They espouse paganism in their music, while often times the paganism is another way to subtly add NS ideals.

Third, Barack Obama is not the first black president, he is half black. People are just saying he is black to advance their agenda and promote the notion of equality and accomplishment within the black community(however right or wrong it may be).

Fourth, I hate(not dislike) the notion of races and such. I don't believe they exist, but are rather a human creaton and races are used if anything to divide humans and make them believe they are different. Culture is what should divide humans and make them unique, not skin color.

Fifth, how can you even compare Mercyful Fate to Dimmu Borgir?

Interesting subject - just my 5 cents:

1) Music-wise I'm not interested in BM and even DM. I can't help it. I see a panda-painted face and I just can't care about the music. So no problems for me so far.

2) I certainly will not support any artist by bying records, concert tickets or other stuff if I find his views being a threat with respects to my personal liberty - to have that explained more clearly, look 3).

I admit though that it's difficult to have all the information necessary to decide whether this is the case or not.

3) I strongly dislike rules others make up for me. - I'm not talking about laws here, in a democracy these are agreements to organize life in a society, designed to protect everybody in this society, including myself.

These rules can be changed by a majority of habitants - if you don't like them, try to change them by finding such a majority. If you can't, make your peace with them or search yourself a deserted island and fucking leave.
- Yeah, I know, that one's hard to accept.

So what do I mean by disliking rules? - Well basically any I cannot understand the concept of. I do understand the concept of democratically constitued laws (see above). If somebody tells me something like "god tells you to ...", I don't understand, and I won't follow.
Just give my a reason to accept a rule. If there isn't any, I won't.

4) Of course, opinions are free - if somebody tells my racist ideas: fine, he's a moron, but this is a free country.

If this somebody's trying to force everybody else to live after his sick ideas: he is threatening my liberty, and therefore my enemy.

- That's pretty much the difference.

5) To revise the example some posts above:

Do I have friends that have different opinions? - Well certainly, we're different persons, so our opinions are supposed to be different to some extend, otherwise we would grow redundant.

Then again, do I have friends which are trying to force me to live my life their way? No, no way!
As stated before my friends - everybody - is invited to convince me of something different. I don't know everything, if arguments are good and valid, I will be convinced, and that's how I learn.

That's not too easy though ...

nazi "metallers" can fuck off and die! As simple as that.

And in my book, most of those nazi are not even metallers, they are just a bunch of idiots that think Black Metal is a nice trend to follow. They have zero knowledge about what Black Metal is and they dont have metal roots either.

Great interview.

I used to think about this issue a lot, but about 12 years ago I stopped worrying about these things. Motorhead's logo has a swastika in it, Christian Logue preyed on the sick, and Paul Dianno beat up his wife... Earache financially abuses its artists, Trouble are Christian, and Kurdt Vanderhoof runs sound for Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

I'd rather enjoy my music collection than think about it at all.

If the music is good then why give a shit? if we all knew the politics of the musicians/directors/writers we listen to/watch. We'd all end up listening to Cliff Richard and ABBA and watching DIsney films for the rest of our lives.

It's no different from people who listend to King Tubby/Blood & Fire reggae music, they are hostile/racist to white people, but the music is so good that most people just enjoy the sounds. The same goes for Skrewdriver who did some great tracks.

Loads of poeple have flirted with the Nazi image, Lemmy, Bowie, Sex Pistols. Nothing new and I can't beleive people are so shocked by it.

Professor Black wrote:Motorhead's logo has a swastika in it

sorry for being pedantic here but that's an Iron Cross - which is not on the same level of nazi-symbolism as a swastika! that you named it wrong proves your point though..

Satan Is Our Pal wrote:If the music is good then why give a shit? if we all knew the politics of the musicians/directors/writers we listen to/watch. We'd all end up listening to Cliff Richard and ABBA and watching DIsney films for the rest of our lives.

What makes you think that the artists and the company you mentioned above would represent some kind of "good" politics we all can agree with?

Try this: "If the music is good then why give a shit? if we all knew the politics of the musicians/directors/writers we listen to/watch. We'd all end up listening to Roy Harper and Iron Maiden and watching John Waters films for the rest of our lives."

Now I feel better!

sagrotan wrote:

Professor Black wrote:Motorhead's logo has a swastika in it

sorry for being pedantic here but that's an Iron Cross - which is not on the same level of nazi-symbolism as a swastika! that you named it wrong proves your point though..

The skull on the first album originally had a tiny swastika somewhere I think... Can anyone confirm this? I will check it with my brother, he's got zillions of Motörhead stuff - which has led me to leaving a shameful hole in my own record collection.

As I said before, I do listen to some music with Nazi ideology, the thing is what's more important for the band itself. if they put more thought in the politics than in the music it would show and therefor I wouldn't like them. Still, I think is absolutely wrong to compare bands that used nazi imagery like Motörhead, Sex Pistols, etc. but never really took the politics seriously with bands that actually have the nazi ideology and show it on their lyrics.

GJ wrote:

sagrotan wrote:

Professor Black wrote:Motorhead's logo has a swastika in it

sorry for being pedantic here but that's an Iron Cross - which is not on the same level of nazi-symbolism as a swastika! that you named it wrong proves your point though..

The skull on the first album originally had a tiny swastika somewhere I think... Can anyone confirm this? I will check it with my brother, he's got zillions of Motörhead stuff - which has led me to leaving a shameful hole in my own record collection.

damn, did some googleing, seems you're right! obviously the Motörhead skull originally had a swastika instead of the Iron Cross (which replaced it on later versions..) - never was aware of that, all my records has the Cross, but none are originally from the 70s. crap, now I need to overcome political correctness and start a hunt for the originals

no I won't.. done with stuff like that after preferably buying KISS records with the original "SS" instead of the modified German ones..

Satan Is Our Pal wrote:It's no different from people who listend to King Tubby/Blood & Fire reggae music, they are hostile/racist to white people, but the music is so good that most people just enjoy the sounds.

Exactly how many Jamaicans have physically attacked and/or killed white people just for being white? You're not comparing like with like here.

Even some of the recent CD issues via Sanctuary etc. have the swastika version, but surely this is laziness rather than politics, ha.

Ernest Thesiger wrote:

Satan Is Our Pal wrote:It's no different from people who listend to King Tubby/Blood & Fire reggae music, they are hostile/racist to white people, but the music is so good that most people just enjoy the sounds.

Exactly how many Jamaicans have physically attacked and/or killed white people just for being white? You're not comparing like with like here.

It's all about the music baby.

Hope not to regret replying because I am sick and tired of discussing nazism over the internet and it's usually a pointless and frustrating effort. To me Metal was always about freedom and rebellion against the norm and against society's oppression. Therefore, the exact opposite of Nazism. Nazi Metal is a total contradiction. Besides, I hate Nazis, supremacists and other brain-dead bullies to the point of it not being an option to even trying to enjoy their music, whatever the fuck they play. Finally, the concept of races is another matter; however, it has been scientifically obsolete since the sixties. It was replaced by the concept of ethnicity, that is culturally defined and is not based in any biological features at all. I don't personally intend to start a wider sociological debate here. I just wish to vehemently declare that there is absolutely no place for Nazism in my Metal, other than as the object of scorn in lyrics or something.