Anyone Familiar with this dealer?

[Glockose]

Well I got all excited tonight when I finally got a copy on CD of Shok Paris Concrete Killers (yeah, not a big rarity! But I needed a perfect copy) from a reputable seller only to discover it's the fucking bootleg!
Now I'm pissed off.. and I'm assuming it's from Greece ..more than likely...?

You should never assume. You only make an ASS out of U and ME

[Korgüll]

Well I got all excited tonight when I finally got a copy on CD of Shok Paris Concrete Killers (yeah, not a big rarity! But I needed a perfect copy) from a reputable seller only to discover it's the fucking bootleg!
Now I'm pissed off.. and I'm assuming it's from Greece ..more than likely...?

You should never assume. You only make an ASS out of U and ME

Yeah I use that comeback everytime

[Glockose]

Well I got all excited tonight when I finally got a copy on CD of Shok Paris Concrete Killers (yeah, not a big rarity! But I needed a perfect copy) from a reputable seller only to discover it's the fucking bootleg!
Now I'm pissed off.. and I'm assuming it's from Greece ..more than likely...?

You should never assume. You only make an ASS out of U and ME

Yeah I use that comeback everytime

sorry had to, Just a Classic

[sovdat]

I don't know the guy from the 1st post of this thread, but in general I as many others avoid the greek sellers with their famous "don't know if it's a re-press" stuff written to auctions or not. However the best private CD seller still comes out of Greece

[Khnud]

Greg Varsarmis (think I spelled it right) from Eat Metal Records in Greece. I'm always suspicious of dealing w/ folks from Greece (yes it's a stereotype, but given all the crappy bootlegs sold by Greek dealers, I prefer to be safe instead of sorry). Thanks for any info regarding whether or not this guy is legit.

I'm supposing you mean this guy?

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/sabbat83_ ... omZQQ_mdoZ

Funny thing is: All these items were listed under a different seller two weeks ago. User name started with Liegelord-something (positive feedback by the thousands). Then all of a sudden all the auctions were gone, long before they were supposed to end. The user account is gone too. And now the items pop up again courtesy of this guy.

I won't bid on these.

[nabel]

Hmm, sounds strange. Or greek. If I don't remember everything wrong, that Liegelord person also mentioned Eat Metal Recs. in his profile or somewhere.

[Korgüll]

Liegelord-something (positive feedback by the thousands

I think this seller is legit & fine (from what I can tell)...???

[Khnud]

Liegelord-something (positive feedback by the thousands

I think this seller is legit & fine (from what I can tell)...???

Why is his ebay-profile deleted? Or is it just me that can't find it?

[apollo.ra]

http://myworld.ebay.com/liegelord7

[sagrotan]

Liegelord-something (positive feedback by the thousands

I think this seller is legit & fine (from what I can tell)...???

Why is his ebay-profile deleted? Or is it just me that can't find it?

you mean liegelord7 ? he's still there:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... llFeedback

from that seller I have bought yet and can't complain about anything..

[nightsblood]

Sorry for not keeping up w/ this thread, I've been on the road.

I'm in my mid 30s and have been collecting since about 92 (late high school).
I can second most of what glock- has already posted. I think I started mail ordering vinyl in the summer of '93 and received lists from John Allinson, Paul ROte, Alfred Spremo, and one other fellow I can't remember. I started getting glock's lists a few years later; for whatever reason I didn't come across his lists as early. I don't know exactly when Allinson started doing lists, but he had definitely sent out several lists before I started dealing with him in summer '93. At least 2 of these dealers warned me about dealing with greeks during conversations we had in '93-'94. Bootlegging was NOT the issue. The dealers' specific complaints were as follows:
1- took forever to send money for items they ordered
2- people claiming packages never arrived
3- claiming the record was not in the advertised condition and demanding a refund, then sending an old, beat-up copy of the record back to the dealer in place of the new, nice copy the dealer had sent them.
Notice these complaints mirror the list glock- posted. Again, none of this had to do w/ bootlegs at all.
I do not know how many greeks were on the lists back then, but it was definitely more than just a few as some of you have indicated. It's been 15 years ago; a lot of people have quit collecting and long since left the scene completely over the years. Heck, even all the dealers I named have long since quit (except glock- of course). Spremo quit in the late 90s (last list was 97-98, he sold on ebay into at least early 99). I think Allinson quit doing lists about the same time; last time I saw him was spring of '99 and he was mostly just selling stuff out of his store in West Virginia and he actually started liquidating his collection within a couple of years of that. Rote sold out his stuff in '97 I think (maybe '98).
Anyway, back to the greek issue, I know not all greek dealers and collectors are rip-offs, but I thik it's clear that dealers like glock- have documented a disproportionate amount of problems when dealing with greek customers (again, NOT talking about buying bootlegs from greek dealers).

[ION BRITTON]

I'm confused, did the thread start about the greek sellers who sell bootlegs or it was about the greek sellers' credibility in general?

You might be a credible seller sending the stuff you have to send on time, in the right condition etc, but with that stuff being a plain bootleg. On the other hand, you might a bit/much slow at sending things and generally completing the trade agreed, but with the stuff being 100% legit. What are we talking about now?

[nightsblood]

I'm confused, did the thread start about the greek sellers who sell bootlegs or it was about the greek sellers' credibility in general?

You might be a credible seller sending the stuff you have to send on time, in the right condition etc, but with that stuff being a plain bootleg. On the other hand, you might a bit/much slow at sending things and generally completing the trade agreed, but with the stuff being 100% legit. What are we talking about now?

OK, I started the thread to find out whether Greg was a reliable dealer because I'm leery of buying from Greek dealers since Greeks have a reputation for shady business practices within the Heavy Metal collecting community.
Some folks went off on the bootleg tangent, which is fine I guess. But what I, and then glock-, were more interested in is how and why did greeks get such a bad rep when it comes to dealing in metal?
We've established that this stereotype had developed by the early 90s when many dealers did not like selling to greek customers for fear of being ripped off. This pre-dates the serious surge of greek bootlegs, so the bad rep of greek customers did NOT develop as a result of people buying boots from Greece.
And yes, for the record, I know that not all greek metalheads are rip-offs, and that there are jerks and scam artists from every country on the globe. Nevertheless, there does have to be a reason that greeks in particular developed such a bad rep. Few bad apples spoil the bunch? Greek business practices? Greek personalities hard to deal with? I dunno.

Glock- you're right that some of John's old lists did contain "Do Not Deal With THese Rip-Offs" lists in them. I still have a bunch of those old lists in storage somewhere (his, Spremo's, probably some of Rote's and yours as well).

[ION BRITTON]

And yes, for the record, I know that not all greek metalheads are rip-offs, and that there are jerks and scam artists from every country on the globe. Nevertheless, there does have to be a reason that greeks in particular developed such a bad rep. Few bad apples spoil the bunch? Greek business practices? Greek personalities hard to deal with? I dunno.

I'm sorry if i sound too nihilistic and pessimistic to other greek fellows who may see things a bit brighter than i do, but unfortunately a non-negligible number of greek people, metalheads or not, show a tendency (and an admirable ability) to scamming, cheating and deceiving others. Many, if not all, things (laws, institutes, customs etc) in Greece have been so fucked up (it's the word "μπουρδελο" we use for this situation- not easily translated) over the years that scamming has become one nasty bad habit that we stubbornly refuse to quit. I'm sad to say that the whole thing in the early 90s wasn't just a matter of statistics, it's something deeper that has to do with our mentality and the way we think and act.

[Helm]

But what I, and then glock-, were more interested in is how and why did greeks get such a bad rep when it comes to dealing in metal?

Well I am not in my late thirties and I never did any trading but if you want my opinion as a greek: Greece had come out of a civil war and a very difficult in economical terms period which was pockmarked by constant internal political bickering just mere decades before today. This isn't something new or terribly specific to Greece, we could for example compare to newly found post Soviet Bloc countries. I am sure they scammed their way through as much as they could for the next decade after the fall of the union until they learned how the rest of the world works. It was a matter of survival. The big difference is that in Greece people's self-respect as citizens, as workers, as political entities was and is constantly chipped away through a wall of govermental corruption so dense you can't cut through it with a peumatic drill. The media is putrid and sickening, if you turn on the television here it will dehumanize you in a matter of weeks. You cannot easily be allowed to live in decency in Greece. Not as a worker and not as a human being. This teaches Greeks to not be honest people just to get by, it teaches them to hate each other and ultimately themselves. This is a generalization but I'm sure you can understand where I'm going with it. In Greece we even have a saying that captures this particular mentality well, it roughly translates to "eat what you can, drink what you can, and fuck what you can" with no regard to the future or to common decency, and then you die.

Of course not everybody is like this, but perhaps this explains why wherever there is a strong honor system in place for trading or whatnot, wherever there are easily exploitable loopholes to get shit you didn't pay for through, Greeks will write the manual on how to do it, early and efficiently. It isn't so much anymore about survival and because money is sparse (not that it isn't, but I know a lot of people with expensive tastes like record collecting that have more money than brains) but because we are programmed to not give a shit about others. The only way for the Greek people to get over this particular failing of theirs is for an enduring shift in political climate that will allow for the people to learn again to live with decent means, make honest livings and not be systematically torn down by the system and ultimately by each other.

Of course if I realize this as a Greek then many other Greeks do also, so obviously while I can't fault you guys for being careful around Greek traders, do keep in mind you might be dealing with a honest one in any case, until and if the opposite is proven.