Insane Ebay Auctions - Vinyl, Tapes & Merch (2012)

LaGouille · Post by **LaGouille** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:00 pm

glockose wrote:What press is that 2002?

Yes around that time

LaGouille · Post by **LaGouille** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:03 pm

chatzial wrote:This seller is simply amazing :

"...A little history on this LP. From Woodland Hills CA. I moved to Ventura, CA. in 1977. While there I got to know many of the local bands and frequented the shows. Cirith Ungol was one of these bands as well as Eclipse, Roxx and many others. This LP was given to me by Rob Garven in 1991..."

http://tinyurl.com/cubt4gb

Can't stop laughing

He should have added: Rob scratched out the matrix numbers in the runout grooves to make this monster rarity totally unique. Sellers have so little imagination nowadays.

LaGouille · Post by **LaGouille** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:13 pm

I agree with most of what you just said Nightsblood, but can't help thinking these internet sales have turned into a big joke. Hopefully there's still a few dealers that do it seriously.
If vinyl goes down again like you seem to predict, think about what the kids will find in the record stores. Black on Black vinyl editions? Oh God...

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:38 pm

LaG- I don't know if vinyl will fade out again, but I think it's possible. Vinyl is a big part of the hipster scene it seems, and I don't foresee that fad lasting very long. I think vinyl is just old enough and just cheap enough to be cool and retro, but as the prices increase and the hipsters realize that no one gives a shit how many albums they own, well, the Demand may die back down. We'll see....

Yak- yes, there are parallels with death metal cds. I walked into a Best Buy in 1995 and bought THERION's 'Of Darkness' CD off the shelf for $12. You could get tons of good death metal at Best Buy in the mid 90s- Therion, Unleashed, Sentenced, Amorphis, etc. No import prices or special orders required.

Prowler- You're right that it's hard for me and you to relate to the prices being paid today. Couple of different things to consider in your post:
0- We didn't have to pay big prices b/c the stuff was new/easy to find. See my comment about the Therion CD above. But for 80s vinyl, that stuff is now 20-30 years old. You can't wander into Record exchange and buy 'Don't Break the Oath' new off the shelf now' that album is 28 years old. Next year is the 30th anniversary for 'Kill 'em All'. And folks didn't collect stuff to the same degree back then, so even older stuff didn't command high prices.
1- Again, it's not the 1980s any more, and some 'kids' nowadays have disposable incomes that you and I would have thought of as a fortune back in our day. When I was a kid, a $10 a week allowance was unheard-of riches. Today, kids are getting that much when they're in elementary school.
2- 'Absurd' amounts of money are relative to the buyer. There are some collectors- including members of this site- who can afford to spend . $1,000 a month on records and it's a drop in the bucket to them. Others can't afford to spend that much on music in an entire year.
3- Yes, sometimes you get an auction where two nuts simply drive up the price to never-before-seen levels for whatever reason. If it happens once, it's a fluke. But when it starts happening over and over, it's not a fluke. If only one copy of Crystal Logic had gone for $100 then sure, two nuts were just trying to outbid each other. But we've seen several copies in that price range in the past year or so. 'Welcome to Hell' now ALWAYS brings $100 for a first pressing with the poster. That's not a fluke price- that IS the price; the days of getting one for $30 are gone, at least for the near future.
4- We old farts like to think we know what an album is worth, BUT THAT AMOUNT CHANGES OVER TIME AND WE OLD-TIMERS SOMETIMES FORGET TO UPDATE OUR BRAINS. I'm flipping through some late 90s/early 00s catalogs today. Here's what knowledgeable, reasonable dealers were selling certain records for around January 1999:
Czar 7" w/ PS $80
Max Planck split 7" w/ PS $20
Frenzy 7" $150
Anniversary EP $100
Iona 7" $150
At that time everyone knew those were the 'actual values' for those records. Are those prices still legit? Of course not. The Czar runs about $200 now, beat up copies of Max Planck missing the ps will bring $50, the Frenzy is given away free with the purchase of any nwobhm item from ebay, no one in the entire northern hemisphere will pay actual currency for the Anniversary EP, and the Iona is now considered a NWOBHM holy grail that you can't touch for $500. Those are the 'actual values' today. But a year from now Anniversary may be bigger than the Beatles and a case of miny Max Plancks may have saturated the marketplace.
5- you're right that some sellers see the 'fluke' auctions and start demanding the same price for their copy, and that does indeed mess up the collecting market a bit. But if others refuse to pay that high price, the seller will eventually have to come down to a more 'reasonable' price.

At the end of the day, every person has to decide for themselves what they are and are not willing to pay for something.

Northwinds · Post by **Northwinds** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:49 pm

nightsblood wrote:LaG- I don't know if vinyl will fade out again, but I think it's possible. Vinyl is a big part of the hipster scene it seems, and I don't foresee that fad lasting very long. I think vinyl is just old enough and just cheap enough to be cool and retro, but as the prices increase and the hipsters realize that no one gives a shit how many albums they own, well, the Demand may die back down. We'll see....

Yak- yes, there are parallels with death metal cds. I walked into a Best Buy in 1995 and bought THERION's 'Of Darkness' CD off the shelf for $12. You could get tons of good death metal at Best Buy in the mid 90s- Therion, Unleashed, Sentenced, Amorphis, etc. No import prices or special orders required.

Prowler- You're right that it's hard for me and you to relate to the prices being paid today. Couple of different things to consider in your post:
0- We didn't have to pay big prices b/c the stuff was new/easy to find. See my comment about the Therion CD above. But for 80s vinyl, that stuff is now 20-30 years old. You can't wander into Record exchange and buy 'Don't Break the Oath' new off the shelf now' that album is 28 years old. Next year is the 30th anniversary for 'Kill 'em All'. And folks didn't collect stuff to the same degree back then, so even older stuff didn't command high prices.
1- Again, it's not the 1980s any more, and some 'kids' nowadays have disposable incomes that you and I would have thought of as a fortune back in our day. When I was a kid, a $10 a week allowance was unheard-of riches. Today, kids are getting that much when they're in elementary school.
2- 'Absurd' amounts of money are relative to the buyer. There are some collectors- including members of this site- who can afford to spend . $1,000 a month on records and it's a drop in the bucket to them. Others can't afford to spend that much on music in an entire year.
3- Yes, sometimes you get an auction where two nuts simply drive up the price to never-before-seen levels for whatever reason. If it happens once, it's a fluke. But when it starts happening over and over, it's not a fluke. If only one copy of Crystal Logic had gone for $100 then sure, two nuts were just trying to outbid each other. But we've seen several copies in that price range in the past year or so. 'Welcome to Hell' now ALWAYS brings $100 for a first pressing with the poster. That's not a fluke price- that IS the price; the days of getting one for $30 are gone, at least for the near future.
4- We old farts like to think we know what an album is worth, BUT THAT AMOUNT CHANGES OVER TIME AND WE OLD-TIMERS SOMETIMES FORGET TO UPDATE OUR BRAINS. I'm flipping through some late 90s/early 00s catalogs today. Here's what knowledgeable, reasonable dealers were selling certain records for around January 1999:
Czar 7" w/ PS $80
Max Planck split 7" w/ PS $20
Frenzy 7" $150
Anniversary EP $100
Iona 7" $150
At that time everyone knew those were the 'actual values' for those records. Are those prices still legit? Of course not. The Czar runs about $200 now, beat up copies of Max Planck missing the ps will bring $50, the Frenzy is given away free with the purchase of any nwobhm item from ebay, no one in the entire northern hemisphere will pay actual currency for the Anniversary EP, and the Iona is now considered a NWOBHM holy grail that you can't touch for $500. Those are the 'actual values' today. But a year from now Anniversary may be bigger than the Beatles and a case of miny Max Plancks may have saturated the marketplace.
5- you're right that some sellers see the 'fluke' auctions and start demanding the same price for their copy, and that does indeed mess up the collecting market a bit. But if others refuse to pay that high price, the seller will eventually have to come down to a more 'reasonable' price.

At the end of the day, every person has to decide for themselves what they are and are not willing to pay for something.

Well said from one old fart to another

Khnud · Post by **Khnud** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:51 pm

What we also need to remember is that $100 is actually a small amount for a rare specimen when it comes to collecting. Compare with collectors of rare books, for example - a copy of the first edition of "Casino Royal" (the first James Bond novel by Ian Fleming) sold for $30.000 at auction here in Lund earlier this summer. It was printed in 4728 copies according to Wikipedia. Compare that with all those private press records made in 500 copies back in the 80's and ask yourself if $100 for a record really is that insane.

chatzial · Post by **chatzial** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:57 pm

There is also one more aspect to the above.

Ten years ago my finances were about the same as now. I had less records in my collection and i never paid high prices for records. Imagine that when i paid $50 for a '80s U.S. private metal vinyl, i considered it to be very high.

Now i have a pretty big collection (for my standards at least) and i buy a lower amount of records than what i used to. But i spend around the same amount of money. I can afford to buy an expensive record from time to time and in the end my year's budget for records is about the same with 10 years ago.

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:38 am

Khund- true, but even that is relative. There are a lot fewer metal collectors than James Bond fans; a pressing of 4,700 for an obscure metal band would flood the market with copies for years and years to come. Also, metal collectors are a notoriously poor lot financially. Other hobbies, including book collecting, have lots of rich collectors to support such high prices. In Heavy Metal, you have a relatively small pool who will even consider just $100 for a single item. There's only a handful of items that hit the $2,000 mark, and only a handful of collectors who are able and willing to pay that much for them.

chatz- good point, I'm the same way. 5 years ago I was on a very tight budget; I might be able to scape together $50 a month for buying music. Today, I have a decent job and no debt other than my mortgage, so I can afford to spend more to get the items that I'm still looking for. My want list has shrank by about 50% since the mid 00s. If I want to get the items remaining on it, I'm gonna have to be willing to pay a decent amount for them (see next paragraph).

Some may scoff at paying 'high' prices for records, but if you want to own an expensive album, you either pay the going price, try to trade for it, or cross your fingers and hit every discount bin you can hoping that, one day years from now, you can get a copy for cheap. Trades are tough to arrange and require you to have something of equal value. And while we all find a few great buys over the years, they are few and far apart. So most folks are gonna have to pay a reasonable price in order to get a high-dollar record. Otherwise, content yourself with a reissue, mp3s, or what-not. There's nothing wrong with sticking to a cheaper option. But some folks want the original item, and your options for obtaining an original copy are limited.

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:50 am

chatzial wrote: Now i have a pretty big collection (for my standards at least) and i buy a lower amount of records than what i used to. But i spend around the same amount of money. I can afford to buy an expensive record from time to time and in the end my year's budget for records is about the same with 10 years ago.

Same here, but still I think 3 times about if that record really deserves that money seen by music and grade of rarity and records like the ones Cirith Ungol or Manilla Road (execpt of the first 2 MR albums) simply don't deserve it. There are too many made and people selling it all the time. It's not like any indie pressing that turns up just once a year. However, it's good to know that you already have these "ordinary" records because to start now with collecting Metal records, means you need to be a millionaire.

@Nightsblood:
I already wanted to start a topic about professions of collectors on here because I've recognized too that some of them must be vice president of any arabian emirate or general manager of an oil firm or something seen by the constantly monthly purchases that must reach almost 1000 $. Just take that Metal Merchant vinyl recently ... my wife would beat the shit out of me if I tell her that I spent all money on a record.

Khnud · Post by **Khnud** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:31 am

@Alanightsblood: True, but that's partly my point. If this metal vinyl collecting thing proves not to be a fad, we can expect prices to increase in the next, say, 20 years. With metal becoming more and more mainstream, an increase in collectors with deep pockets is not that improbable.

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:13 am

Kristian- that's true; if metal collecting does attract and hold a larger number of collectors, then prices could indeed continue to climb in the future. It will need to be a large enough influx of new collectors to offset the trickle of old collectors who leave the hobby, either b/c they can't afford stuff anymore, complete their want list, get bored, move on to a different hobby, etc. And the new wave will have to be better off financially than the current wave.
Realistically, I'd guess most of the new, young collectors will eventually give it up in a few years, the way most kids do. But you'll have some who will keep at it, and among them a small number will move beyond the Iron Maidens and Slayers into the obscure stuff, and among there there will be a few willing and able to pay big money for the rarities.
I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the US is so damn trendy that it's hard to foresee a long-term surge in American collectors. Metal is still viewed as the music of misfit teens in this country.

Prowler- Yeah, if I spent $1,700 on a record my wife would have me sleeping in the yard until wax cylinder recordings were back in style

And yes, I too suspect we have some corporate-CEO types among our ranks. My wife and I both teach at local colleges, though my wife is only part-time currently

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:47 am

Yakish wrote:
nightsblood wrote:Even just 5 years ago we were all complaining about how vinyl is so unappreciated and how kids need to learn about the 'real' metal of old and quit listening to crappy mp3s. Well, we got our wish, and the spike in prices is indicative of the current popularity of metal vinyl. I'll be interested to see if/how long this lasts; call me cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vinyl is just the latest fad and a few years from now stores are back to trying to give vinyl away while everyone has moved on to the next trendy thing
Totally agree with the whole post, but this paragraph is exactly what i am thinking of. The same situation now with old school death metal cds. I am think it's just a vogue (hope i expressed my thoughts through a correct word in english) on exact sub-genre. I am sure cds that was printed in big (if we compare to real obscure self-releases) quantities on major lables were not so expensive in the past like in our days.
Examples:
Monstrosity "Imperial Doom"
Therion "Of Darkness"
Seance "Fornever Laid To Rest"
Necrophobic "The Nocturnal Silence"
and, of course, smaller labels, but still far from self-financed releases:
Morbid Saint "Spectrum Of Death"
All Protector discography
both Assassins on Steamhammer etc.
Sorry for offtopic, i can't say about old vinyls, because i was a kid when you (old farts) bought them in local shops, but parallels is obvious.

Old Death Metal CD's have been hot for well over 5 years now.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:03 am

Prowler wrote:I already wanted to start a topic about professions of collectors on here because I've recognized too that some of them must be vice president of any arabian emirate or general manager of an oil firm or something seen by the constantly monthly purchases that must reach almost 1000 $. Just take that Metal Merchant vinyl recently ... my wife would beat the shit out of me if I tell her that I spent all money on a record.

In case you are still curious, there's already a topic about this in "Land Of Mystery".

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:47 am

Avenger wrote: Old Death Metal CD's have been hot for well over 5 years now.

Yeah, I've sold my old DM CD's and there was mainly chinese guys buying them. In TV they say an ordinary monthly chinese salary is about 100-200 Euros, but one guy bought for about 200 Euros and said he could buy more ... lol
Especially the crap stuff like the Morpheus "Son of hynos" CD sold for over 90 Euros alone. This is truly one of the worst Death Metal albums I've ever heard. Terrible ... while the truly great stuff like Impaler's (UK) debut didn't even reach the 10 E mark!

Yakish · Post by **Yakish** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:40 am

Agree with you Prowler! Morpheus is a very weird sounding death metal album. I've tried listen to it many times, but in the end i deleted it. People are paying huge amounts for only great cover art and rarity of piece of plastic, not for the music.