nightsblood wrote:
Being associated with boots is bad for legit labels.
That's why I thought he's is trying to release it properly....
I agree with you on most points However, there seem to be labels like Unisound who have a bootleg reputation for long time and still manage to release their CDs in a pressing of 3000 copies (like it is written on the Armageddon backcover). It seems you get rid of most copies no matter if it is a bootleg or not. I got the impression that HRR wants to be taken serious and therefore they want to close the chapter with an official release of MDS. I mean HRR seem to have a very great number of customers and could easily produce more bootlegs (even under a different labelname which they could just distribute) which would sell out sooner or later. However, they seem not to do that. That's why I have the impression that the new release is more like forgetting the bootleg past than making extra money... But we'll never find out
High Roller Records would not exist without a passion for the music. None of these smaller metal labels would exist if there wasn't a passion for the music involved. It's simply not a profitable enough endeavor to justify peddling obscure metal albums only a handful of people care about. Obviously intelligent labels are also businessmen and release things that they believe will sell (for example, Shadow Kingdom Records has no plans to release more Asylum demos because the one he released hardly sold), but you're blowing that aspect way out of proportion, nightsblood. As far as him selling the MdS bootleg a mere few weeks ago, I can't confirm or deny that, but I don't believe that to be true. I've browsed his webstore a handful of times over the past couple of months and don't recall ever seeing it.
And for what it's worth, I know that Steffen is passionate about at least a lot of the music that High Roller releases. The same can be said with relative obviousness about all of the label owners that post here, along with others such as I Hate, Nuclear War Now, Blood Harvest, Hell's Headbangers, etc.
Some of the bootleg stuff was distributed by High Roller and was released on Hades Paradise, a label I think was run by a certain Joe Pangallo. I do not know any of this for certain, but I have been led to believe that Steffen (rather naïvely) trusted Pangallo when he claimed to have the rights for the releases. There are probably threads here where Pangallo and his dealings are discussed, reference those to see what kind of fellow this is.
Steffen was contacted after the releases were done by at least a couple of the bands (maybe more?) and deals were struck where the bands were compensated for the infringement. He still felt that it would be better to make new releases where everything was done right. I'm sure there has been a process where the chances of profit on the releases were assessed, but there is some idealism in there as well.
I know I ain't doing much,
doing nothing means a lot to me.
Hi there, I hope that by posting here once a decade I haven't lost most of my credibility ... anyway I know a little bit about this release so I may be able to contribute to this discussion (and I'm NOT speaking on behalf of HRR, although I was somewhat involved in this release, but I'm NOT part of the label).
Back in 2004-5 when the bootleg was released, HRR were just starting didn't really know what they were doing, and the driving force behind this release was actually Joe Pangallo. At the time Joe had in his possession the MdS demo tape with the 4 tracks you all know, which, along with a vinyl copy of the single. was used as an audio source for the bootleg, resulting in some mediocre sounding release. Joe told HRR he had the rights to release the material and permission form the band.
A short while after it was released, I spoke to Peter Gordelier on the phone and he told me there was this guy from the US (Pangallo) who was asking about the band, looking for photos and stuff like that. Peter told me the guy mentioned something about wanting to release their material, but Peter didn't exactly care at the time and he wasn't even sure anything was released. I believe his brother Chris was contacted by Pangallo as well, again with some vague mentions of a release, no contracts signed or anything (and no royalties of any kind of course).
When HRR became a more 'serious' label, shaking off Pangalo and starting to make sure all their further releases were official, one of their first priorities for years was making a 'proper' MdS release. This required finding all 5 band members, since the Popes had some claim on the rights and their permission was required, as well as San Remo's. It took a while to locate these guys, and once contacted the Pope brothers were reluctant to agree to anything, especially after the Joe Pangallo case (in which they were NOT involved). Remo gave his okays for this along with the Sanctus LP on BBTAD, and eventually so did the Popes.
The reasons behind this release are various - naturally, as mentioned here before, HRR is a business and not a charity, so yes, making money is one of the main goals. The guys are also really big fans of the MdS music, and they did actually feel bad about how things started, especially after getting to know the band members a bit better. I also think you might agree with me that HRR are setting a pretty high standard with their current releases, and the MdS bootleg was sort of crappy sound-wise and production-wise, so they wanted a release on par with their later LP's. A lot of effort was put into finding the best sounding sources available, with full cooperation of the band, and achieving the best sound possible to make it all fit for a proper release. The were hopes that some unknown material will surface, but after long searches and inquiries I can say there is none, this is all MdS ever recorded. So eventually it sounds better and looks better. I'm NOT trying to convince anyone to buy this, I just want to say this is really a product of long hard work, and it's really done right this time.
I have no insight into Steffens dealings with Mr. Pangallo but I can vouch for the fact that back in the late 90's when I traded with Joe now and again (as did many older collectors, usually to our regret), he tried the same tactic on me. I was running my label, he claimed to have the rights to Hell, Demon Pact, etc. I didn't believe him, but I did ask him to send me copies of the contract so I could check out these claims. He never sent anything of course, I always knew he was looking for someone to put out bootlegs for him.
Overall I'm very impressed with the releases by High Roller. He keeps cranking out some great metal records, good for him that he didn't manage to get pulled down by Mr. Pangallo.
I always got a bit of a laugh out of the fact that never once did Mr. Pangallo order any of my releases directly from me (I did offer them to him a couple of times but he always passed, saying new releases were crap basically), yet he seemed to offer them in his catalog, I never did find out where he got his copies.
Anyway, bring on the new & improved MDS!
great_knuthulhu wrote:Some of the bootleg stuff was distributed by High Roller and was released on Hades Paradise, a label I think was run by a certain Joe Pangallo. I do not know any of this for certain, but I have been led to believe that Steffen (rather naïvely) trusted Pangallo when he claimed to have the rights for the releases. There are probably threads here where Pangallo and his dealings are discussed, reference those to see what kind of fellow this is.
otakon wrote:is the mastering the same as the bootleg? they fucked up the mastering on that one.... lead guitars too low in the mix!!!
I think they have done a lot more to the tracks than on the bootleg. Don't know for sure though! Damn, for once the release came out SOONER than expected and I can't afford ordering from HRR now because I have to get some other stuff as well... And some weird voice inside is telling me I want the most limited version...
well for anyone that actually bought the vinyl and bothers listening to it after, please let me know if the lead guitars are mastered correctly... they sure played many tasty guitar licks which were unfortunately buried too deep in the mix for the bootleg! cheers
Avenger wrote:Uh, my question is how do you not know if you have the rights to release something or not? Do you not have the copyright holder sign a contract with the stipulations?
No idea about this specific case, but all kinds of things can happen. Sometimes one bandmember can mistakenly represent that he is the sole rightsholder. Or sometimes a band can mistakenly assume a label's ownership has expired, etc. Bands do not always understand the contracts they sign. Likewise a lot of people in underground business do not have a good understanding of the laws and principles around copyright when they start out. Some learn and change their ways, some will never care, etc.
Anyway, Mendes Prey have received offers from a number of interested labels but have not chosen to take any action as of yet.
I talked to the HRR guys about some of my wishes, ha, and they were not familiar with Charger. I have tried to contact someone from Charger to ask permission to print some shirts, but no response.
They (HRR) told me about a great NWOBHM item in the pipeline though, a title everyone here knows but with some very tasty extras. I hope it is announced soon because I can't keep it secret forever...
Chris who did you try and contact about Charger?
That Mendes Prey seems to have come to a halt let's hope something gets sorted. Did Hollow Ground ever get sorted with HRR?
nightsblood wrote:'crawler- No, someone- and probably lots of someones- would have noticed and made a fuss if HRR listed a boot in his catalog. One thing that small metal labels MUST do in order to be successful is ensure they are in good standing with metal fans, and lots of metal fans take serious offense at bootlegs. Thus, even if the band didn't notice, customers would definitely notice, and some of them would decide not to buy HRR's products if they realized the label was openly advertising bootlegs.
BroUKPromotions wrote:Chris who did you try and contact about Charger?
That Mendes Prey seems to have come to a halt let's hope something gets sorted. Did Hollow Ground ever get sorted with HRR?
yeah Hollow Ground is listed as "in the pipeline" on their last news to dealers.
I believe I reached out to someone from Colin Bell's post-Charger band. I can't remember now all of the links in the chain. It went nowhere, anyway.
Ah, they asked me who they should go with and I told them HRR were great, so good to see that's happening.
I know Phil Holosade/Dark Heart and he used to be in a band with Colin, but he doesn't have contact for him either. Shame, I'd love to get a charger shirt/reissue/live gig!
However, there seem to be labels like Unisound who have a bootleg reputation for long time and still manage to release their CDs in a pressing of 3000 copies (like it is written on the Armageddon backcover). It seems you get rid of most copies no matter if it is a bootleg or not. I got the impression that HRR wants to be taken serious and therefore they want to close the chapter with an official release of MDS. I mean HRR seem to have a very great number of customers and could easily produce more bootlegs (even under a different labelname which they could just distribute) which would sell out sooner or later. However, they seem not to do that. That's why I have the impression that the new release is more like forgetting the bootleg past than making extra money... But we'll never find out 
