The Corroseum forum (new design under construction)

ION BRITTON wrote:BTW, i think Dan is having big trouble splitting the last 20 posts from the "now playing thread"

Exactly. I've been trying to split this thread all morning but get a timeout error since the thread is so fucking huge. Maybe it'll work better at home.

ION BRITTON wrote:What do you mean by "without distorting the voice"? Like using some kind of FX to distort it? What's the line that distinguishes the mere changing of one's voice from the distortion of it?
As i've said, they don't sound brutal from the first to the last second, they just have some moments. I have the feeling that you connect brutality only with Death metal type of music and vocals. It's the emotion that i get when listening to them that matters to me, not the technique they use. Death metal is supposed to sound brutal and ferocious, but i tell you, there are dozens of heavy/power/thrash bands that sound way more brutal than many so-called Death metal acts. What i want to say is that, in my very humble opinion, there are many ways to sound brutal as there also are many ways to sound epic, evil, lyrical etc.

Ok, I'll try to make you understand what I'm trying to say for one more time:
I don't use the word"distort" with its technical meaning ofcurse...yes, the brutal vox fit better in Death/Black and they don't exist in Heavy Metal. The word "Distortion" has two parts: a)the complete corruption of the words, so that someone could not understand them, and b)the extremely agressive expression, and tone, if you want, that eliminates the quality of the sound, so that you can hear only a violent manifest that expresses the negative feelings/way of life/perception of the artist...but that's only on the surface, imho, and does not investigate the roots...how can I explain it...ok, the deeper expression of feelings comes from inside, and NOT only from Wrath...brutality is"one-sided" thing...
Now, Ion, you ask me to define the thin line that distinguish brutality from raw power: It's very simple...pugnacity can be expressed in many ways, but when an artist can compine harmoniously truculence with lyricism, then he uses raw power, and not brutality...brutality can't exist with lyricism, cause is one UTTERLY form of expression. Now, if, as you said, you think that this exists in a small quantity, in some parts of some specific songs, then this is a delusion, cause brutality can't exist in small numbers..it's a very strong word, and has mutual influence to the whole listening result..it can't be used to emphasize something cause it changes completely its whole character..

And sth last: John's frantic screams at Metal's No Sin are not brutal...he's fucking angry and powerful, and defines exactly what he represents: POWER AND LYRICISM...what a GOD! You can see the technical turnings, and you can realize how divine succesfully he engages those two elements together...

Now, if, as you said, you think that this exists in a small quantity, in some parts of some specific songs, then this is a delusion, cause brutality can't exist in small numbers..it's a very strong word, and has mutual influence to the whole listening result

I don't know about it...is this some kind of axiom that i have to blindly accept? don't see where's the problem having brutal parts in your music without being brutal from beginning to end. i still believe that is the word itself that you find annoying 'cause you are thinking that brutal = something that can only be found in death metal.

And sth last: John's frantic screams at Metal's No Sin are not brutal...he's fucking angry and powerful, and defines exactly what he represents: POWER AND LYRICISM...what a GOD![/quote]

I was very specific about the point of the song. Last second. Yes, the very last one. He is not screaming there. He's making an abysmal brutal moan.
I am not deaf, i can hear him screaming throughout the song and i am not saying that those screams are brutal or they don't have aggression, however i wasn't talking about them.

Moreover, i'll have to disagree with the lyricism in Stewarts singing. This is definitely not what i call lyrical singing. He's angry, he's mad, he's paranoid, he's aggressive, he's theatrical, but lyrical, no.

Finally, because this discussion will probably continue for hours and hours with each of us saying how sees and understands this or that thing, consider my coming silence as my ''agreement to our disagreement".

ION BRITTON wrote:

Now, if, as you said, you think that this exists in a small quantity, in some parts of some specific songs, then this is a delusion, cause brutality can't exist in small numbers..it's a very strong word, and has mutual influence to the whole listening result

I don't know about it...is this some kind of axiom that i have to blindly accept? don't see where's the problem having brutal parts in your music without being brutal from beginning to end. i still believe that is the word itself that you find annoying 'cause you are thinking that brutal = something that can only be found in death metal.

And sth last: John's frantic screams at Metal's No Sin are not brutal...he's fucking angry and powerful, and defines exactly what he represents: POWER AND LYRICISM...what a GOD!

I was very specific about the point of the song. Last second. Yes, the very last one. He is not screaming there. He's making an abysmal brutal moan.
I am not deaf, i can hear him screaming throughout the song and i am not saying that those screams are brutal or they don't have aggression, however i wasn't talking about them.

Moreover, i'll have to disagree with the lyricism in Stewarts singing. This is definitely not what i call lyrical singing. He's angry, he's mad, he's paranoid, he's aggressive, he's theatrical, but lyrical, no.

Finally, because this discussion will probably continue for hours and hours with each of us saying how sees and understands this or that thing, consider my coming silence as my ''agreement to our disagreement".[/quote]

----END OF ION BRITTON'S QUOTE---

Ion, we don't argue, we JUST talk, and I don 't want you to agree with me. I just tempt you to see things from another point of view, and not mix genres by using wrong definitions. There's not any axiom here, you tell your opinion, and I tell mine...we can support them for hours of talking cause we both have the knowledge and the jugdement to do so...
Well, as said before, brutality is a very strong word, and it can not be used in small numbers. What you call"abysmal brutal moans", I would name"Raw Power explosions", and the list would go on forever!
But, please if you don't agree about John's lyricism, what would you say for songs such as City of Sirtel, No Idea, Syncopated Angel, My Eyes, etc...?

BlackStele wrote: what would you say for songs such as City of Sirtel, No Idea, Syncopated Angel, My Eyes, etc...?

City of Sirtel has a quite fairytalish atmosphere + some sick riffing that can only detract points from any potential lyricism.

No Idea and the rest....well, i see them as a big dive down in Stewart's dark, disturbed and lonely world.

"I feel like a blindman...i'm trying to see..."

ION BRITTON wrote:

BlackStele wrote: what would you say for songs such as City of Sirtel, No Idea, Syncopated Angel, My Eyes, etc...?

City of Sirtel has a quite fairytalish atmosphere + some sick riffing that can only detract points from any potential lyricism.

No Idea and the rest....well, i see them as a big dive down in Stewart's dark, disturbed and lonely world.

"I feel like a blindman...i'm trying to see..."

haha, interesting point of view, ofcurse I disagree! I find John's interpretation at COS Majestic...I conceive plenty of Noble Power here, not such a fairytalish thing...We can build A New City, not made of wood, but made of Heavy Metal Steel! His voice is like the hot Blood on the snow...floating and melting everything in its Way, leaving its own, unique Mark...*emotional flood mode on, hehe*

ION BRITTON wrote:However, there is something to comment on statements like "Queensryche clones". This is not a matter of personal opinion, something subjective, it's either you have listened to Queensryche and you are able to detect whether Hittman are influenced (heavily or not) or you haven't heard a single Queensryche note and therefore you can't spot such influences. ''Clone'' is a heavy word, i think Hittman, and Lethal as well, had blended their influences with their own elements and the result wasn't exactly what you'd call ''a clone''. They don't deserve such characterization imo.

This was pretty much the main point of what I said.

It's just too easy to make such strong claims especially after listening to Queensryche minutes before.

BlackStele wrote:

ION BRITTON wrote:

Now, if, as you said, you think that this exists in a small quantity, in some parts of some specific songs, then this is a delusion, cause brutality can't exist in small numbers..it's a very strong word, and has mutual influence to the whole listening result

I don't know about it...is this some kind of axiom that i have to blindly accept? don't see where's the problem having brutal parts in your music without being brutal from beginning to end. i still believe that is the word itself that you find annoying 'cause you are thinking that brutal = something that can only be found in death metal.

And sth last: John's frantic screams at Metal's No Sin are not brutal...he's fucking angry and powerful, and defines exactly what he represents: POWER AND LYRICISM...what a GOD!

I was very specific about the point of the song. Last second. Yes, the very last one. He is not screaming there. He's making an abysmal brutal moan.
I am not deaf, i can hear him screaming throughout the song and i am not saying that those screams are brutal or they don't have aggression, however i wasn't talking about them.

Moreover, i'll have to disagree with the lyricism in Stewarts singing. This is definitely not what i call lyrical singing. He's angry, he's mad, he's paranoid, he's aggressive, he's theatrical, but lyrical, no.

Finally, because this discussion will probably continue for hours and hours with each of us saying how sees and understands this or that thing, consider my coming silence as my ''agreement to our disagreement".

I think you two are both being way too over-analytical now...

ION BRITTON wrote:6) "Secret agent man" sucks

Yeah, but the guitar in Cirith Ungol's cover is pure street metal bliss!

Is it just me that find this album too slick, melodic and powerless? I mean, I like it melodic too sometimes, but sheesh... There's decent material in there, like Metal Sports, Caught in the Crossfire, Test of Time etc, but Bon Jovi were heavier, that's the whole problem.

I found out today that I like Lethal more than I remembered... but then I played Guardian Angels 'Oblivion Seas' and boy, that gave me a bit of perspective as far as 'progressive metal that I NEED' goes.

Also Omega Point are probably the best of the Qryche followers bunch for my money. Shame they only did one demo. Also I guess I should mention Oracle with the great William Wren of Mystic Force, but he's not a Tate clone I'd say and the music isn't going for Queensryche either so they don't belong in this discussion really. I love the Oracle album more than all the Lethals and Hittmans put together for what it's worth.

The Omega Point demo is way more Queensrych-y than Hittman. I'm not saying that it is better or worse, but it's much closer to what you call a "pleasant variation of the form" and which you seem to like more though.

The singer sounds even more like that than Hittman dude. It totally is a variation of the form and in no way essential listening for me, but I do find it more enjoyable than Hittman.

Well,this band had kinda dumb monicker,but I think that Teacher's Pett sounds a lot like QUEENSRYCHE.This band also comes from Seattle so that expains a lot.Just a week ago saw 1988 Demo for sale on eBay.Quality stuff here.Maybe someone have demo and can post it on Poisonoise?

That's the worst name for a HM band ever!