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Avenger wrote:

mordred wrote:Anyone who calls himself a metalhead and claims the last five years have not been great needs to get off his ass, stop masturbating over his precious rare album covers and get out where the metal action is...

Real Metal has been dead since 1993.

Why invest time and effort into uninteresting, wannabe bands?

The spirit of the 80's period will never be duplicated.

If I'm going to open my wallet for metal, it might as well be for material that solidified the genre.

It's all got to do with your age I suppose. When you grew up. But even saying that, the early 90s saw some fucking great music. The whole start of the Death metal scene, the start of the Black Metal scene were fucking great. It all went to shit from about 95/96 until maybe in the last three or four years.

mordred wrote:

Avenger wrote:Real Metal has been dead since 1993.

Why invest time and effort into uninteresting, wannabe bands?

The spirit of the 80's period will never be duplicated.

If I'm going to open my wallet for metal, it might as well be for material that solidified the genre.

I'm sorry but that's a load of bullshit and you are nothing but a poser if you actually think it's true.

Silly me, I forgot that your OPINION is the epitome of fact and truth.

Go jerk off to your lamb of god and dragonforce CD's you nu-metal, trend whore.

Guys guys! geez come on!

Come on guys, let's be nice to each other.

Avenger wrote:Silly me, I forgot that your OPINION is the epitome of fact and truth.

Go jerk off to your lamb of god and dragonforce CD's you nu-metal, trend whore.

You obviously don't have a clue and hopefully one day you will realize.

There are lots of hard working real metal bands around today, like Wrathblade, Portrait or Atlantean Kodex, that are trying hard to make a difference to the commercial copycat bullshit (insert lamb of god, dragonforce etc here) that is going on in the big metal mags and on the big "metal" labels.

This scene need the real metalheads. These bands need you today, they need you like Cirith Ungol, Slauter Xstroyes or Solar Eagle would have needed you in the 80's. The last thing that the scene needs is idiots who insist that real metal is dead. Guess what, bands like Manilla Road, Cirith Ungol etc never got the attention they deserved, pretty much because the people that would have been their fans were all too busy polishing their precious rare hard rock vinyls, while they were convinced that real metal had died in 1977.

I bet in ten years from now the "metalheads" of today will suddenly realize how awesome The Gates of Slumber and Doomsword were, declare them "cult", and their records will suddenly start selling for $$$$ on eBay, after the bands are disbanded and gone. Just like what happened to the underground scene of the 80's. The fans never seem to care when it counts.

Metal is here, Metal is calling for your attention, Metal is not dead and it will never die, but if you don't have it in your heart to support Metal you might as well fuck off and die.

I want to support Metal - my wallet can't, but it's stilll possible to do this with 'zines, word of mouth etc.! The Metal scene worldwide is very healthy at the moment I think with some great music being created in all genres of Metal! It would be impossible to enumerate all the bands out there doing good stuff but Metalucifer/Sabbat, Atlantean Kodex, Devil Lee Rot, Mortuary Drape, Agatus, Destroyer666 etc. etc. etc. are all great and are heralding a new age that is still well-rooted in the visual and audial aesthetic set in the 80's scene (in my humble opinion)!

mordred wrote:

Avenger wrote:Silly me, I forgot that your OPINION is the epitome of fact and truth.

Go jerk off to your lamb of god and dragonforce CD's you nu-metal, trend whore.

You obviously don't have a clue and hopefully one day you will realize.

There are lots of hard working real metal bands around today, like Wrathblade, Portrait or Atlantean Kodex, that are trying hard to make a difference to the commercial copycat bullshit (insert lamb of god, dragonforce etc here) that is going on in the big metal mags and on the big "metal" labels.

This scene need the real metalheads. These bands need you today, they need you like Cirith Ungol, Slauter Xstroyes or Solar Eagle would have needed you in the 80's. The last thing that the scene needs is idiots who insist that real metal is dead. Guess what, bands like Manilla Road, Cirith Ungol etc never got the attention they deserved, pretty much because the people that would have been their fans were all too busy polishing their precious rare hard rock vinyls, while they were convinced that real metal had died in 1977.

I bet in ten years from now the "metalheads" of today will suddenly realize how awesome The Gates of Slumber and Doomsword were, declare them "cult", and their records will suddenly start selling for $$$$ on eBay, after the bands are disbanded and gone. Just like what happened to the underground scene of the 80's. The fans never seem to care when it counts.

Metal is here, Metal is calling for your attention, Metal is not dead and it will never die, but if you don't have it in your heart to support Metal you might as well fuck off and die.

I thought that that I've already made it clear, but here, I'll state it again in the simplest possible terms: I support metal, but won't waste my time with new bands when it comes to forking out money for material.

I like nearly everyone else on this forum choose to actually purchase albums instead of MP3 downloads, so given that fact, I'd much rather purchase material from the glory days than from bands that are just recycling the same shit over again for the 1000th time.

I'd rather stick with the originators of the genre rather then the continuation of post metal wannabe’s..

Avenger wrote:I thought that that I've already made it clear, but here, I'll state it again in the simplest possible terms: I support metal, but won't waste my time with new bands when it comes to forking out money for material.

I like nearly everyone else on this forum choose to actually purchase albums instead of MP3 downloads, so given that fact, I'd much rather purchase material from the glory days than from bands that are just recycling the same shit over again for the 1000th time.

I'd rather stick with the originators of the genre rather then the continuation of post metal wannabe’s..

You just don't get it, do you?
By your definition, everybody has just been rehashing Black Sabbath from day one anyway, especially in the 80's, so your pathetic little explanation sounds like utter bull to me. The band on your avatar, Sword, too were already in 1986 just recycling the "same shit" for the umpteenth time. Originators of the genre my ass (good band though).

If you'd rather spend your money collecting LP's from every mediocre Accept or Maiden clone that ever farted in a rehearsal room in the 1980's and got to press their smelly shit on vinyl because some greedy label smelled cash, rather than exploring a scene of both today and yesterday where hard working bands with class and integrity tries to make music of lasting value based on the TIMELESS spirit of true metal, go ahead.

mordred wrote:

Avenger wrote:I thought that that I've already made it clear, but here, I'll state it again in the simplest possible terms: I support metal, but won't waste my time with new bands when it comes to forking out money for material.

I like nearly everyone else on this forum choose to actually purchase albums instead of MP3 downloads, so given that fact, I'd much rather purchase material from the glory days than from bands that are just recycling the same shit over again for the 1000th time.

I'd rather stick with the originators of the genre rather then the continuation of post metal wannabe’s..

You just don't get it, do you?
By your definition, everybody has just been rehashing Black Sabbath from day one anyway, especially in the 80's, so your pathetic little explanation sounds like utter bull to me. The band on your avatar, Sword, too were already in 1986 just recycling the "same shit" for the umpteenth time. Originators of the genre my ass (good band though).

If you'd rather spend your money collecting LP's from every mediocre Accept or Maiden clone that ever farted in a rehearsal room in the 1980's and got to press their smelly shit on vinyl because some greedy label smelled cash, rather than exploring a scene of both today and yesterday where hard working bands with class and integrity tries to make music of lasting value based on the TIMELESS spirit of true metal, go ahead.

Sigh, I'd have hoped that being the "be all, end all" knowledge base of metal that you portray yourself as, you'd have realized that a band like Sword, (we'll use this as an example since you already have) wasn't a money maker for any of the labels that any of their material was ever pressed on. The same goes for 95% of the other bands I listen to falling into the more obscure territory. I don't just choose to listen to the metal that I do simply based on the year that it was released, but rather for the many reasons that I've already mentioned, "hard working" or not.

Oh well, I guess that if your content with sitting in your bubble of ignorance while listening to your third generation, nu-metal, try-hard bands, that's all that matters.

Avenger wrote:Sigh, I'd have hoped that being the "be all, end all" knowledge base of metal that you portray yourself as, you'd have realized that a band like Sword, (we'll use this as an example since you already have) wasn't a money maker for any of the labels that any of their material was ever pressed on. The same goes for 95% of the other bands I listen to falling into the more obscure territory. I don't just choose to listen to the metal that I do simply based on the year that it was released, but rather for the many reasons that I've already mentioned, "hard working" or not.

Oh well, I guess that if your content with sitting in your bubble of ignorance while listening to your third generation, nu-metal, try-hard bands, that's all that matters.

I guess in your little sick world everything recorded post 1993 is 'nu metal' regardless of what it actually sounds like, while everything recorded pre 1993 is 'originators of the genre'. Why do I bother trying to talk sense into an idiot?

Why do you think a band like Sword ever got signed in the first place? Because it was 1986, anthemic metal was the hottest trend on the planet, label executives smelled money and every label wanted to have a piece of the cake by signing their very own metal band, regardless of talent or integrity, not to mention identity. That's the origin of your genre right there, awesome!

Now who would ever wanna listen to a great band like Slough Feg when there are still tons of shitty german Accept clones that released one single crap LP on Scratch Records in 1985 to be discovered yet! Now that's "real metal" a whole eight years before it died! How could I not have seen the truth when it was in front of me all the time...

mordred wrote:

Avenger wrote:Sigh, I'd have hoped that being the "be all, end all" knowledge base of metal that you portray yourself as, you'd have realized that a band like Sword, (we'll use this as an example since you already have) wasn't a money maker for any of the labels that any of their material was ever pressed on. The same goes for 95% of the other bands I listen to falling into the more obscure territory. I don't just choose to listen to the metal that I do simply based on the year that it was released, but rather for the many reasons that I've already mentioned, "hard working" or not.

Oh well, I guess that if your content with sitting in your bubble of ignorance while listening to your third generation, nu-metal, try-hard bands, that's all that matters.

I guess in your little sick world everything recorded post 1993 is 'nu metal' regardless of what it actually sounds like, while everything recorded pre 1993 is 'originators of the genre'. Why do I bother trying to talk sense into an idiot?

Why do you think a band like Sword ever got signed in the first place? Because it was 1986, anthemic metal was the hottest trend on the planet, label executives smelled money and every label wanted to have a piece of the cake by signing their very own metal band, regardless of talent or integrity, not to mention identity. That's the origin of your genre right there, awesome!

Now who would ever wanna listen to a great band like Slough Feg when there are still tons of shitty german Accept clones that released one single crap LP on Scratch Records in 1985 to be discovered yet! Now that's "real metal" a whole eight years before it died! How could I not have seen the truth when it was in front of me all the time...

Wow, your ignorance never seizes to amaze me...

Obviously, getting signed as a metal band back in 1986 was easier based on the fact that metal as a genre was marketable on a way larger scale, but how do you explain the countless bands that I listen to from that same period that never got passed the demo stage?

A record label has nothing to do with it...

In fact, Sword (once again used as an example) were offered numerous contracts from many different smaller labels, way earlier in their career, which they respectively turned down while awaiting a major label contract deal with better and or world wide distribution.

Not every single starving, young band from that era jumped at the first opportunity to release their material via a record company with intentions of a quick cash grab.

Still to this day there are metal only record labels and those that specialize in releasing only the unpopular and obscure.

In this day and age bands have way more opportunity then ever before to put their material out (regardless the format) to be heard by a potential fan base, so really your argument is bullshit.


And not that it matters but in regards to your third paragraph, I find your point irrelevant. Judging the "greatness" or "crappiness" of a band is entirely opinion based and regardless, I'd still much rather listen to what you claim to be “Accept clones on Scratch Records” such as Angel Dust or Tyrant while they at least existed in the same era, rather then those of the modern day, three generations down the line.

Avenger wrote:Obviously, getting signed as a metal band back in 1986 was easier based on the fact that metal as a genre was marketable on a way larger scale, but how do you explain the countless bands that I listen to from that same period that never got passed the demo stage?

There's a number of possible explanations. Maybe they sucked. Maybe they broke up too early and thus never came in question for a deal. Or maybe they were fucking great but no label thought their material was gonna sell. What does this have to do with anything?

Avenger wrote:In fact, Sword (once again used as an example) were offered numerous contracts from many different smaller labels, way earlier in their career, which they respectively turned down while awaiting a major label contract deal with better and or world wide distribution.

Your point being? That they wanted the best deal they could possibly get? Wow, I could never have thought of that myself.

Avenger wrote:Still to this day there are metal only record labels and those that specialize in releasing only the unpopular and obscure.

Yes. Too bad they are working for deaf ears because some people think real metal has been dead since 1993 and every new release must automatically be shite just because it's new.

Avenger wrote:In this day and age bands have way more opportunity then ever before to put their material out (regardless the format) to be heard by a potential fan base, so really your argument is bullshit.

No, my point is perfectly sane. Yours though is nonexistant, or at best, shit.

Avenger wrote:And not that it matters but in regards to your third paragraph, I find your point irrelevant. Judging the "greatness" or "crappiness" of a band is entirely opinion based and regardless, I'd still much rather listen to what you claim to be “Accept clones on Scratch Records” such as Angel Dust or Tyrant while they at least existed in the same era, rather then those of the modern day, three generations down the line.

You are straying away from the point here, either on purpose or just because you are plain stupid.
Here are some key points for you:

1. Clones are useless. If they are good at what they're doing they may suffice as momentarily entertainment, but in the long run they are watered down blueprints and thus boring.

2. The same goes for clones new and old alike. Your opinion that a 1985 Accept clone is more passable than a 2005 one just because they cloned the same thing two decades earlier just goes to prove how full of shit you are.

3. I am not trying to promote modern day Accept clones here. As I said, clones are essentially a waste of time.

4. To any sane metalhead it should be more rewarding to enjoy present day true metal bands like Doomsword, Hour of 13, or Slough Feg, that are doing their own thing, instead of snatching yet another 1984 LP from a band that was only ripping off Saxon anyway.

5. Real metal ain't dead. Especially not if you consider all these clones "real metal". There's still plenty of them and they still sound the same. But that's not my idea of real metal.

mordred wrote: Now who would ever wanna listen to a great band like Slough Feg when there are still tons of shitty german Accept clones that released one single crap LP on Scratch Records in 1985 to be discovered yet! Now that's "real metal" a whole eight years before it died! How could I not have seen the truth when it was in front of me all the time...

Avenger wrote: And not that it matters but in regards to your third paragraph, I find your point irrelevant. Judging the "greatness" or "crappiness" of a band is entirely opinion based and regardless, I'd still much rather listen to what you claim to be “Accept clones on Scratch Records” such as Angel Dust or Tyrant while they at least existed in the same era, rather then those of the modern day, three generations down the line.

Since i read your argumentations both of Mordred and Avenger.I have to say
that no one of you have absolute right.

1)@Mr.Avenger I don't believe Metal was ever dead.OK Metal bands are not perfect or much like in mid80's but anyway good albums exist all years.For example i can name any time 20 albums from 1996-1999 that are total masterpieces.

2)@Mordred.OK i agree with some of your opinions about new Metal.But you said you'd rather collect new bands or something special ignoring the most (countless)demo bands of the 80's.
Are you a bit contradictive?But tell me one think man.Aren't you the man who discovered even the L-A-S-T 80's Swedish demo from Jävleköppinge and Skitsholmen
?OK if it is Swedish you don't care about years,formats,originality the other counties in your opinion sucked in the 80's.

So let me guess your taste US Metal,Swedish Metal,UK Metal and New(After 99 Metal) can someone trust your taste.I doubt if so...

P.S Tyrant,Wallop,Vampyr,Stormwitch,Veto,Maniac,Necronomicon,Carrion,S.D.I
produced among others the GAMA/SCRATCH label you refering.I live for these bands so please don't insult their history.(In MY humble opinion these bands are better than everything ever USA,CANADA,UK produced together)

Fucking Åmål wrote:2)@Mordred.OK i agree with some of your opinions about new Metal.But you said you'd rather collect new bands or something special ignoring the most (countless)demo bands of the 80's.
Are you a bit contradictive? But tell me one think man. Aren't you the man who discovered even the L-A-S-T 80's Swedish demo from Jävleköppinge and Skitsholmen
?OK if it is Swedish you don't care about years,formats,originality the other counties in your opinion sucked in the 80's.

I think you misunderstood some of what I said. Obviously I listen to a lot of 80's metal. I have never tried to deny that, nor would I ever want to. I also enjoy the occasional clone band, "bands of their time" so to speak, if they have good songs and the right attitude. But I do make a distinction between bands that carved their own niche and helped defining the metal genre and bands that just had a go at metal they way their heroes played it.
I am indeed most known for collecting swedish 7" singles and demos. I do that mainly because I come from Sweden and I like to try and explore the 80's scene of my home country to as big an extent as I can. Some swedish obscure acts were really great, some were shit, and most of them were simply slightly enjoyable if taken for what they were. I don't know of any band from Skitsköping though, nor of any town of that name, but if I ever hear something I promise you'll be the first to know.

Fucking Åmål wrote:So let me guess your taste US Metal,Swedish Metal,UK Metal and New(After 99 Metal) can someone trust your taste.I doubt if so...

I don't define my musical taste by nations. My taste preferences would be NWOBHM/NWOBHM:ish metal, epic metal, doom and thrash. To sum things up, I like metal bands that write great songs and have some feeling to their music, this may be 80's bands or bands of today, and if they push their music into something of their own while still retaining the true metal spirit it makes it all the more interesting and fullfilling for me.

Fucking Åmål wrote:P.S Tyrant,Wallop,Vampyr,Stormwitch,Veto,Maniac,Necronomicon,Carrion,S.D.I
produced among others the GAMA/SCRATCH label you refering.I live for these bands so please don't insult their history.(In MY humble opinion these bands are better than everything ever USA,CANADA,UK produced together)

To each his own. I like Stormwitch. The point is not to bash some 80's bands - the point is to clarify that real metal is not dead and that a metal album recorded in the 80's doesn't have to be better than a new one just because it was recorded in the 80's.

Haha I was waiting for Fucking Åmål to come in and defend Scratch .