GLACIER - Demo '88 w/ Tim Lachman

[ION BRITTON]

And Steve Benito slays both Tate and Lachman.

See now, Benito vs Tate is a bout I can understand, they're the same weight class. I say Tate wins because of a) personality (Benito was a jackass) b) consistency (Tate made many albums that are great. His vocals are actually never anything less than great) c) he wrote his own lyrics, occasionally really great stuff.

I'm only saying that i like Steve Benito's voice more. He was an asshole, yes, but i'm judging his abilities as a singer not his behaviour as a man, that hasn't much to do with the way he sings. Then, every track i've heard Benito singing is great, i hope you have heard the incredible demo of 1990, it shows that the band had much more to give than a brilliant "One small voice". Tate's works from "Hear in the..." and then are really not that impressive and his vocals are surely not in the same league as in ''classic'' albums.
Steve Benito wrote also some songs by himself, he brought them from his previous band "French Kiss". That means he was also able to compose great music and not only to give great performances.

But i believe that that analysis isn't needed at all. I just like Benito's voice more and that doesn't mean that Tate is not a great singer.

[Fucking Åmål]

Well, the s/t album of Gargoyle slays from start to finish. A US metal milestone. Timeless.

And Steve Benito slays both Tate and Lachman.

Correct!
GARGOYLE-Gargoyle one of the 5 timeless classic US power metal albums although i am not dedicated fan of the particular genre.
GLACIER-Both demo and EP slays masterpieces no words needed although the demo is more closely considering sound as Gargoyle.
QUEENSRYCHE-Classic band but i always liked mostly the 2 first.The the 2 next are almost as good but the progressive touch lets me somewhat down.

Benito has to be the best US singer of all time.His work on the second album from HEIR APPARENT is out of this world.
So my ranking has to be like this 1)Benito2)Lachman3)Tate.

About Mordred´s opinion i strongly disagree.Although mordred has quite good taste (ex. Swedish metal) his extreme opinions sometimes shock us.

And Where have you read that Steve Benito was an asshole?Are you sure that aren´t rumors?

[mordred]

About Mordred´s opinion i strongly disagree.Although mordred has quite good taste (ex. Swedish metal) his extreme opinions sometimes shock us.

Prefering Queensrÿche over Gargoyle = an extreme opinion?

[Helm]

And Where have you read that Steve Benito was an asshole?Are you sure that aren´t rumors?

You should read the snakepit interview with Terry Gorle...

Ion, Benito is one of these cases where assholeness shows in the music for me! He sounds so pleased with himself, he oversings Keeper of the Reign terribly. It's not what notes you can hit but why you sing them. That's why Geoff Tate wins, in my opinion. Otherwise I find both their voices of equal technical merit. John Arch is my favourite metal singer on the whole although he's technically inferior to both of these mentioned (though not Tim) simply because there is an ethos to what he sings and why he sings it that talks straight to my heart and helps me become a better person.

Prefering Queensrÿche over Gargoyle = an extreme opinion?

Not at all, quite reasonable on the whole in my opinion. It's Fucking Amal that has these 'extreme opinions' I'd say Gene Hoglan overrated! Bah! On whose rating system?

[ION BRITTON]

He sounds so pleased with himself, he oversings Keeper of the Reign terribly. It's not what notes you can hit but why you sing them.

[/quote]


Never had a problem with his version of Keeper, i think he's doing it his way, what's the point singing it exactly the way Davidson did? I don't think he's trying to show off, he likes singing very high most of the time, many others have done it this way as well, Tate is no exception. I also believe that he knows exactly what and why he is singing. I mean on tracks like "The fifth season", "Screaming", "Young forever", "Crossing the border", "Two hearts" he sounds very passionate and true to what he sings, he really believes every single line he's singing, the feeling i get hearing his voice is very similar to that i get by reading the lyrics if you know what i mean. "One small voice" is one my top-5 favourites of all time and i tell you i have examined every second of it, music+lyrics+singing+playing everything fits perfectly, it's indeed a phenomenal album.

Anyway, i usualy avoid judging different things at the same time. His behaviour might have been lame, however his art was flawless. If you judge him as a whole , then yes maybe he's behind Tate and Arch, but do you really know what those two are doing in their private lives? Just because we learned some unpleasant things about Steve, it doesn't mean he's the only asshole in the metal scene, does it? Maybe Leif Edling and Chris DeGarmo have a dirty little secret too, can you really be sure only from what you read in a magazine? I'm praising the singer Steve Benito not the man. That goes for every artist of course. You can always keep the good elements of a man and ignore/throw away the bad ones. It ain't easy all the time, but believe me sometimes it works and it's better that way.

[Helm]

If I didn't hear it in the music I wouldn't remember that he's an asshole. I don't judge from their personal lives, just the stuff related to the music in a direct way. Like, if everybody in his old band hates him, that's a pretty good reason to be wary. It's not the same as trying to dig up dirty secrets.

Generally your outlook is very healthy and I respect it, I just hear unpleasantness in all the vocal acrobatics that Benito does, though he's an amazing talent for it, it's just not for me so much.

One Small Voice would have been much better if the guitars weren't turned down in the mixing

[ION BRITTON]

It's not the same as trying to dig up dirty secrets.

No of course it isn't but somehow both reflect part of each one's behaviour. It's pretty unlikely to behave like an asshole to the members of your band and outside the band to be the coolest guy ever. And the opposite of course. It's the same person...

[ION BRITTON]

One Small Voice would have been much better if the guitars weren't turned down in the mixing

Damn! That's what Gorle believes too. I like the way it is, please don't make any change in the mixing, no!

[MassOfKthulu]

only greeks can talk for hours about stuff like this haha.. we are all a dying race..

[doomedplanet]

I found that "top 5" Queensryche list mildly amusing since I alway thought this band could only have a top 3 or top 4 since after the 4th record I found everything they recorded completelyforgettable.

[Fucking Åmål]

Oh for Satan's sake, Lachman is noting but a buttfucked shite vocalist compared to Geoff Tate.

That´s the extreme opinion my friend not the fact that you don´t like Gargoyle at all.
Anyway opinions differs.Btw Tilemache why you think my view that Gene Hoglan is an extreme opinion.At least i try to explain why and draw also an example.

[Helm]

Because Gene Hoglan is an amazing drummer who even if you don't like as much could never be considered overrated. Overrated by whom? Are you talking to Metal Hammer GR magazine? Do you understand the world by large is not a Metal Hammer GR magazine? Why are you talking to them when talking to us? I haven't read that thing for years and I really don't care what their opinion on Hoglan is. I know they overstate everything, I dislike that too ("x band are gods", "y band are gods" "one of the best records ever" every second paragraph) but they don't form my tastes or judgements in reverse. You seem to hold a lot of opinions that are based on the reversal of the Metal Hammer GR 'scene' expectations (whichever these may be), so whereas maybe a few greeks who read MH can follow where your beef stems from, the rest of the forum certainly cannot.

When I say whether someone is overrated or underrated, I usually mean by and large. This way, even if Metal Hammer GR put out an issue next week with Slauter Xstroyes on the cover and said 'Winterkill' was the best HM record ever, they would still be tragically, completely underrated by and large.

Gene Hoglan is a drummer of such influence and capacity, that until everybody even remotely related to drumming and metal knows who his is and what he has offered to the world of metal, he should be considered somewhat underrated. He's not as underrated as Perry Strickland (Vio-lence) but he's not as well-known as Lombardo, whereas he's superior to him.

I found that "top 5" Queensryche list mildly amusing since I alway thought this band could only have a top 3 or top 4 since after the 4th record I found everything they recorded completelyforgettable.

You'd probably find Promised Land amusing too cuz while it's certainly a heavy record, it's not a very metal record at all. I have a queensryche top 5 because I don't mind bands who come from a HM background not being very metal anymore Just as long as the music is good and the aesthetics that hold it together creative and interesting.

[The Sentinel]

Lachman > Benito > Tate

I really tried to like the much praised "Operation: Mindcrime", but it looks like I am not able to grasp the greatness of it, it always just bores me
The Warning + first MLP are good enough, but not outstanding or whatever.

I agree completely with you. Operation Mindcrime is the second most overated album in the history of metal (it's ok, nothing special) after MOP ( what did I said, sorry). I like the EP from Queensryche the most. Warning contains some godly tracks and after that album it's over for me. I'm still not recovered from the disaster that goes under the name Rage For Order. Queensryche could be such an amazing band but I have the idea that EMI ruined it completely to make fine accessible commercial crap (it's always the same and it will never end). Queensryche pioneered an ultimate genre in the US-scene which other bands completed to the utmost perfection, so I still give them credits.

[The Sentinel]

Gene Hoglan is a drummer of such influence and capacity, that until everybody even remotely related to drumming and metal knows who his is and what he has offered to the world of metal, he should be considered somewhat underrated. He's not as underrated as Perry Strickland (Vio-lence) but he's not as well-known as Lombardo, whereas he's superior to him.

Agree, he did also a hell of a job with Death

[ION BRITTON]

I must say that Promised Land is the last great album by Qryche although it ain't that metal. New Qryche mean absolutely nothing to me, i don't care whether they are metal enough or not, their albums are uninspired, totally dissapointing stuff, was that OM II so necessary?