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DeathMetalWeenie wrote: WASP are not metal, they are hard rock. They write those brain-dead type of ditties and jingles that KISS we famous for. aka music for commericals, so kind of a COMMERICAL metal. Come one you know the Meow Mix song, by Parina Catchow, INC.

Anyhow, if I were to write a book on heavy metal, other than Slayer, Omen, Savage Grace, Abbatoir and Metallica before there move to San Francisco. Los Angles to me is know as a musical wasteland, mostly know for it overabundance of 9th rate music acts. IN COMPARISON TO METAL AS A WHOLE WORLDWIDE METAL PHENOMENA.

What I have against false metal is what I have against false money know as a counterfeit. If you came from the bank with a envelope of counterfeit money, all is good, untill someone with street smarts know you have a poketful of fake money, and some merchant takes justice into there own hands.

Look this is the corroseum. I came to this place, because I thought it had alot in common with Snakepit Magazine. So on this basis, I like to look around and try to find some cool bands I missed out on the first time around when I only cared about Power and thrash metal.

WASP IS hardly Corroseum material in the first place. If someone asked me in a music store to give a description of WASP, I would just say they are a West coast answer to Twisted Sister, and a hard rock band.

Guess I'm gonna get all exited and worked up here:

To me Heavy Metal is purely a musical style. This means much of WASP's early material could or should be defined as HM. As for Hard Rock - it is a very close relative. I can't see there would be such things as definite borders between the two. Are bands like High Spirits or Pagan Altar Heavy Metal? Well listen again back to back to the WASP debut!

If someone's belief is that Heavy Metal is some kind of philosophy, then I'm lost. Snakepit may be the best mag around, but that's due to the massive information on cool bands. It's philosophies seem a bit rotten to me...

The term False (Heavy) Metal is a joke. There might be good Heavy Metal and bad Heavy Metal, but that's a matter of taste. And I pity those who don't see the humour in the Corroseum headline.

Oh, and Cirith Ungol or Manilla Road: Wimpy prog rock dinosaurs who jumped the Heavy Metal (and beyond) bandwagon?

GJ, great work.
Yet another compelling, well reasoned and well rounded reposte.
I take my hat off to you for articulating my feelings on the subject better than i could manage.
Loved that Cirith/Manilla baiting sign off, i can almost hear the humourless thunder of keyboard keys globally gnashing out their vitriolic howls of protest.

Snakepit may be the best mag around, but that's due to the massive information on cool bands. It's philosophies seem a bit rotten to me...

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........

I guess I sense a certain bitterness and a slightly aggressive tone in much of the writing that I can't come to terms with.

I can live with it though.

Keep it up!

DeathMetalWeenie wrote:Whoa....

That mathmatical equation was pretty cool, but I will use common sense, and my 32 years as a metal fanatic.

WASP are not metal, they are hard rock. They write those brain-dead type of ditties and jingles that KISS we famous for. aka music for commericals, so kind of a COMMERICAL metal. Come one you know the Meow Mix song, by Parina Catchow, INC.

Anyhow, if I were to write a book on heavy metal, other than Slayer, Omen, Savage Grace, Abbatoir and Metallica before there move to San Francisco. Los Angles to me is know as a musical wasteland, mostly know for it overabundance of 9th rate music acts. IN COMPARISON TO METAL AS A WHOLE WORLDWIDE METAL PHENOMENA.

What I have against false metal is what I have against false money know as a counterfeit. If you came from the bank with a envelope of counterfeit money, all is good, untill someone with street smarts know you have a poketful of fake money, and some merchant takes justice into there own hands.

Look this is the corroseum. I came to this place, because I thought it had alot in common with Snakepit Magazine. So on this basis, I like to look around and try to find some cool bands I missed out on the first time around when I only cared about Power and thrash metal.

WASP IS hardly Corroseum material in the first place. If someone asked me in a music store to give a description of WASP, I would just say they are a West coast answer to Twisted Sister, and a hard rock band.

You'd look a lot better if you just admitted you've never heard W.A.S.P.

DeathMetalWeenie wrote:WASP IS hardly Corroseum material in the first place.

Conclusive proof that you are wrong:

Corroseum's bloody owner in his all time favorite list wrote:Classic Heavy/Power Metal

1. MERCYFUL FATE - "Don't Break The Oath" LP '84
2. JUDAS PRIEST - "Defenders Of The Faith" LP '84
3. IRON MAIDEN - "The Number Of The Beast" '82
4. MANOWAR - "Sign Of The Hammer" LP '84
5. RUNNING WILD - "Branded & Exiled" LP '85
6. BROCAS HELM - "Into Battle" LP '84
7. WASP - s/t ("Winged Assassins") LP '84
8. RIPPER - "...And The Dead Shall Rise" LP '86
9. ANVIL - "Forged In Fire" LP '83
10. SHOCKSPLIT - "Under Wraps" MLP 89

mordred wrote:You'd look a lot better if you just admitted you've never heard W.A.S.P.

With the probable exclusion of a

Ha....

Whoa...Alot of WASP fans here. Cool, I never said, I never heard of WASP.
Sometime In mid August of 1984. They were splattered all over the MTV, when they eMpTVy played music videos ( and not stuff like they have nowadays), back then. I just thought they were MTV corporate type of metal, like all the others. I thought WASP wrote jingles and corporate rock using the typical corporate rock formula. Just straight forward songwriting. Aka average/ cliche/ typical.

I always classified WASP in the false metal wave alongside....Quiet Riot, RATT, Motley Crue, Icon, KICK AXE, Haoni Rocks, Keel, Great White, White Sister, Helix, Rail, Motley Crue,Twisted Sister....

It seemed like every metal label had some type of false metal act back in those days on there roster. Even the major metal independants. Metal Blade, Megaforce had Avalanche Records (Eric Steel, TT Quick), Sharapnel (Steeler) Combat, Music For Nations.

As far as the owners of this website liking WASP, and naming them as a favorite/ best album of all-time, I am cool with that, LONG LIVE THE FIRST AMENDMENT....... but my taste run more along the lines of Kick Ass Monthly (81-86), Metal Forces (83-91), and Snakepit Magazine France (97-still active).

For me the metal rock line is not drawn at AC/ DC or say Wasp, I draw it at Black Sabbath, and Wasp have more in common with Kiss than Black Sabbath.

Instead of WASP, and the likes... I was into bands like Metallica, Mercyful Fate, Exciter, Slayer, Raven, Anvil, Iron Maiden, Manowar, Anthrax, and all the hardcore punk rock bands that had a major influence on thrash metal in the 1st place.

I never checked this website for review or articles on WASP, because I come here for bands like Coven (Detroit), DeepSwitch, and Hell....And for that thank you for adding some depth to my collection.

Twisted Sister were on the cover of Metal Forces #4, followed by hard rockers like Jack Starr and Pretty Maids, posers like Pantera and by 1990 they had had ASAP, Bon Jovi (twice), Poison, Whitesnake and Skidrow on the covers + a vast ammount of corporate (!) thrash.

I can see your point though if judgning by all those supposedly Metal mags from the US which contained a minimum of writing and a minimum of featured artists (just recycling the same ones over and over again it seems).

Also if I were to draw the lines (which I have no intentions to do) I'd probably end up with leaving mosth Thrash, Death and Black Metal out of the Heavy Metal context as those styles only have produced a few (early) acts to my liking... still I'd kept Wasp inside since Tormentor and The Torture Never Stops are beautiful examples of Heavy Metal perfection - and in Heavy Metal balladry only Iron Maiden's Children of the Damned can touch Sleeping in the Fire.

I know no analogy can ever be perfect.

Since there is counterfeit money (fake money) why can there not be counterfeit music (false metal) by posers (fake people).

It is very important to hate things in life (like false metal)....and I hate wimp rock and wimp metal. It helps me see the forest (hyped garbage) from the trees (essential albums "Kill em All" and "Bonded by Blood") before the artist goes all sell*out to corporate and/ or underground trends...

Kick Ass monthly was my main magazine in high school and college, but Metal Forces, did have a good ear for a band hear than there.

I thought the '80's were awesome hardcore punk rock and Thrash on oneside and the glam/ hair-ball metal on the otherside....crushing every luke-warm ho-hum bland band, in between.

Hahaha, "since there's fake money"... Well maybe there's a fake sun too!

The subject of "posers" is a problematic one, I hardly ever seriously use it any more mostly because it's really a cliché and more often says more about the voice than the recipient - no denying there's people into music for the wrong reasons, but it's also something than can be broken down into many factors and the right or wrong becomes much more harder to discern, because things aren't simply black and white. A bigger problem is when people toss the term around in reference to music of the past that they simply do not like; the term essentially loses its meaning and simply becomes an indicator of personal preference. This whole thing on the Winged Assassins is certainly stupid, since arguing whether they are metal or not isn't down to opinion as can be seen by simply referencing other bands who no one calls into question yet never sounded as "metal" as WASP did at their best. ... Never heard anyone call Hanoi Rocks anything but rock either... And basically I'd rather look at all the calling out of bands as more bullshit to cause schisms, I'll listen to whatever I like no matter if they're sleeping in chainmail or going to church. If someone seriously wants to maintain THEY NOW what bands are "false" then perhaps they should go back in time and interview the bands plus bug their homes and rehearsal rooms etc. Writing music that doesn't appeal to certain people doesn't automatically make a band posers. Personally I think Anthrax absolutely suck after the first LP and they are one of the most annoying bands that "everyone likes" - stupid humour music haha

Don't understand about drawing the line at Black Sabbath... This band was incredibly diverse in their output.

Whoa....Daniel

Hell yeah there is fake sun....Never had to buy your girlfriend-fiance- wife a tanning bed !!! ...Usually around 2 or 3 paychecks, with some good solid overtime. Check with your friends getting a divorce, you should be able to pick one up for .50 cents on the dollar.

The false metal thing I remember was with Kick Ass Monthly, and Metal Blade records jumped on that band wagon...with the "death to false metal". Stamped all over the metal massacre series, except Vol 1, had alot of hard rock on that thing.
I know Manowar had "Death to false metal" plastered all over "Into Glory Ride" when it was release on Megaforce Records, in August 1983. Metallica took that up one notch, complaining about the Los Angles freak show, where the bands could tell you everything the lipstick they were wearing, but could tell you nothing about that Van Halen riff they stole, or that Jackson guitar they were holding. Then Paul Baloff really took that kill posers beyond everyone else.

Hell I would of supported Metallica during there sellout period, but I learned so much from them in interviews, what to look out for when it came it looking for charlatans/ posers (those in it for the money, INSTEAD OF THE MUSIC). It was more than obvious Metallica had to back peddler from there past quicker than Pantera (for the opposite markeeting reasons). Metallica circa 1982-Sept 1986 along with Bob Muldowney really opened my eyes to how much the music business had changed, once the labels went from only signing original sounding acts, to what we have today... everyone gets a record deal even if you can not play music, but have somekind of gimmick.

The reason I like Black Sabbath, as the dividing line for rock and metal for me is because in the late 70's and early 1980's. I could tell it was a big step for a new genre, and I do not thing heavy metal is a sub-genre of rock and roll.

WASP wikipedia page says heavy metal, shock rock, glam metal and hard rock. But myself I really do not care, either way, because these types of bands are gateway bands, to the real deal, Motorhead, Holocaust, Satan, Tank, Raven, Riot, Anvil, Metallica, Acid, The Rods, Accept, Exciter, Slayer, Mercyful Fate, Anthrax. I was just lucky to see these pioneering bands around before the glam shock rock thing, and those bands predate WASP 8/84 and false metal in a huge way, where I lived there was no false metal cliques, only NWOBHM, hardcore punk rock, and thrash metal fanatics & maniacs, and since I lived in a conservative Jesus Freak area, there was alot of yuppie art rock cliques.

Myself I am not perfect....I have a guilty pleasure of Classical music. I started with Music there, and moved onto heavy metal, because alot of the genres detractors said it had no power, no structure and nothing you could remember, in terms of melody and harmony. I started with Black Sabbath, and I could remember those albums with say 2 weeks. And I was hooked.

I got into metal for the exact same reason most people did in the 1980's remember that Holocaust lyric in Heavy Metal Mania ..."ROCK AND ROLL WAY TO SLOW"...

Hmm, can't really say that Motorhead are the real deal when it comes to heavy metal.

ION BRITTON wrote:Hmm, can't really say that Motorhead are the real deal when it comes to heavy metal.

I agree, they're not a metal band and they never considered themselves such as . I wonder Lemmy's reaction if you tell him that MOTORHEAD is a heavy metal band !

Go ahead DeathMetalWeenie, you may have picked up a controversal issue with WASP, but who cares, interesting anyway to read from someone who has been around that long.

Question: if you leave the image/outfit totally aside for a moment, just as if you'd only have the first WASP LP without a sleeve or any other information. Would you then categorize them as heavy metal?