Sharing rare Metal..

[DaN]

[Topic changed to fit a broader discussion]

My own argument against sharing everything with everyone has always been that a lot of rare/cult stuff really isn't that great, and I've always had this habit of pushing stuff that I really like on people, rather than that über-obscure, crappy WYZARD-rehearsal some kid is just dying to hear coz he knows the album is twice as expensive as his fave BM-crap releases. (no, I don't have a Wyzard-rehearsal, but you get my point...)

[Helm]

Thanks for topic split.

Ion Britton, I wasn't really adressing you or your point of view, I find it quite reasonable, really. It was more about FenderMedium's calls towards these invented and convinient 'idiots' that come out of left-field and take the metal... 'idiots' we can safely feel superior from because of what?


- personal anecdote. My guitarist friend in my band met a dude in another local band that had the last cliff burton live show with metallica. He asked if he could give him a blank tape to tape it in. The other guy declined and said 'well, it won't be rare if I go about giving it about indiscriminately'. I think this paints the picture... -


So just because I found my way to this forum this immediately makes me worthwhile to share with? Just because I like talking about metal so I have more than 25 posts, now it's okay for me to download the rare releases on the Poisonoise? I could be the worst poseur in metal history (remember, I listen to technothrash!) for all you know.

That's the thing. For all you know. Someone wants to download something from you, for all you know he could be a poseur, or he could be a true lover of metal. Why is it your job to sort them out is what I don't understand, and using what invented measure to do it.

I think all obscure metal that is vinyl-only, when ripped (by the kind and awesome people that do this!), should be available to anyone that wants it. This way the field will truly be equalized between the 'rare and worth its' and the 'Paradoxx's. This might not suit Collector-mindset people, but in the end, it's not how rare it is, but how GOOD it is, right? is there seriously a Heavy Metal recording that is worth 300 euros? Yes, the thrill of the hunt, yes, not having everything at a touch of a button is probably for the best, but these are personal choices that people have to make and we don't have to make them FOR them.

[ION BRITTON]

- personal anecdote. My guitarist friend in my band met a dude in another local band that had the last cliff burton live show with metallica. He asked if he could give him a blank tape to tape it in. The other guy declined and said 'well, it won't be rare if I go about giving it about indiscriminately'. I think this paints the picture... -

Listening to rare stuff only because of its rareness and high price seems more like a masochistic practice to me.

So just because I found my way to this forum this immediately makes me worthwhile to share with? Just because I like talking about metal so I have more than 25 posts, now it's okay for me to download the rare releases on the Poisonoise? I could be the worst poseur in metal history (remember, I listen to technothrash!) for all you know.

25 posts don't make anyone true or poser. It's just the least we can do to avoid lazy music looters who don't bother saying even a very simple "Thank you" for all the stuff that can be found here.

I think all obscure metal that is vinyl-only, when ripped (by the kind and awesome people that do this!), should be available to anyone that wants it. This way the field will truly be equalized between the 'rare and worth its' and the 'Paradoxx's. This might not suit Collector-mindset people, but in the end, it's not how rare it is, but how GOOD it is, right? is there seriously a Heavy Metal recording that is worth 300 euros? Yes, the thrill of the hunt, yes, not having everything at a touch of a button is probably for the best, but these are personal choices that people have to make and we don't have to make them FOR them.

The price tags of each metal LP is basically a result of the laws of supply and demand. Music value and sentimental value are also two other factors, the whole thing is a bit complicated. I cannot say that actually there is or there isn't a metal LP that's worth 300 euros, these things change and depend on many other factors that can't be analysed in one paragraph.

I agree with you that you can't make choices for other people. It's their right to choose which way to go. But that doesn't mean that one is obliged to do anything the others want or wish. It's their right to download 10.000 metal albums in one day and it's my right not to let everyone download my complete collection in a blink of an eye. [/quote]

[Helm]

Listening to rare stuff only because of its rareness and high price seems more like a masochistic practice to me.

How about making oneself believe something bad is good because it's rare and they paid a big price for it? Enter collector mentality (sometimes).

It's just the least we can do to avoid lazy music looters who don't bother saying even a very simple "Thank you" for all the stuff that can be found here.

Sure. and also:

I agree with you that you can't make choices for other people. It's their right to choose which way to go. But that doesn't mean that one is obliged to do anything the others want or wish. It's their right to download 10.000 metal albums in one day and it's my right not to let everyone download my complete collection in a blink of an eye.

Sure. As I told you, I find your position reasonable. It's calling people that have made different choices 'idiots' the point where I object.

[ION BRITTON]

How about making oneself believe something bad is good because it's rare and they paid a big price for it? Enter collector mentality (sometimes).

That's exactly what i mean. Forcing yourself to like something just because you paid a lot of money for it is far beyond my system of logic. Well, taste may vary of course, but this thing really happens quite often in the collectors' circles. I have talked in the past years with a few collectors and i tell you i heard pretty un-fuckin'-believable things. No need to discuss them in public.

Sure. As I told you, I find your position reasonable. It's calling people that have made different choices 'idiots' the point where I object.

I'm glad that we agree.

[FenderMedium]

Ion Britton, I wasn't really adressing you or your point of view, I find it quite reasonable, really. It was more about FenderMedium's calls towards these invented and convinient 'idiots' that come out of left-field and take the metal... 'idiots' we can safely feel superior from because of what?

What do you mean I conveniently invented Idiots,these people are idiots if they think I should cater to their downloading needs and just give them any album they want because they "don't have the time to bother with it". those are the type of people I refer to, so what if someone approaches you online and says give me every mp3 on your computer I seriously doubt you will.

personal anecdote. My guitarist friend in my band met a dude in another local band that had the last cliff burton live show with metallica. He asked if he could give him a blank tape to tape it in. The other guy declined and said 'well, it won't be rare if I go about giving it about indiscriminately'. I think this paints the picture...

Maybe your friend should find it himself,the recording itself is illegal to begin with and should be kept outside of general public knowledge or metallica may take legal action.

So just because I found my way to this forum this immediately makes me worthwhile to share with? Just because I like talking about metal so I have more than 25 posts, now it's okay for me to download the rare releases on the Poisonoise? I could be the worst poseur in metal history (remember, I listen to technothrash!) for all you know.

No but chances are the worst poser in metal history doesn't even know how to find good bands on the internet. The people I refer to do not talk about metal online at all they just come in and download and never upload anything or share anything with anyone ever.

That's the thing. For all you know. Someone wants to download something from you, for all you know he could be a poseur, or he could be a true lover of metal. Why is it your job to sort them out is what I don't understand, and using what invented measure to do it.

You can usually tell if someone wants the music and if someone just wants to leech tons of albums. I don't believe I should share with others if they have nothing to share as well.

[DaN]

Helm -get over yourself and stop being a psuedo-intellectual self-righteous twat ,you obviously think your above everyone and are clearly another one of these "I'm smarter and more enlightened than the average dumb Metalhead" types that seem to be a dime-a-dozen these days particularly on Metal forums. Keep your self-important moral superiority to yourself and stop lecturing and talking down to everyone with your p.c. bullshit.

There's worse Crimes Agains Metal than a little overanalyzing. Metal Forums aren't exactly short on dead-end, "righteous indignation"-blurbs like yours either


Back to the subject:

I think the biggest problem with filesharing networks is the anonymity of it all. It takes away a lot of the joy of sharing cool music to cool people when you're constantly spilling megabytes after megabytes straight into the hard drives of hundreds of faceless users. To be honest I don't think there's many recordings I wouldn't share w/ just about anyone if this person contacted me and told me how he's been dying to hear it for ages and looked everywhere else.

[ION BRITTON]

if this person contacted me and told me how he's been dying to hear it for ages and looked everywhere else.

Yeah, just like all those 0-post members of every forum do.

[FenderMedium]

Helm needs to clarify his true argument, he seems to imply I should cater to people who are of a higher social status than I am and I should just give files to fly by night leechers.

[DaN]

Yeah, just like all those 0-post members of every forum do.

I take it you're being ironic, but no, those people of course belong in the same cathegory as filesharing leechers.

It's really a universal, age-old issue of courtesy. If you want something from someone: 1. Introduce yourself 2. let me know what you need and why and 3. if only as a symbolic gesture, offer something in return. Civil standards like these are very difficult to keep when using filesharing software, that's why a semi-private forum like this is a superior alternative. Sure, it's not perfect but there's a health limit to how anal you should be about your collection.

[Helm]

wicked keeper wrote:
Helm -get over yourself and stop being a psuedo-intellectual self-righteous twat ,you obviously think your above everyone and are clearly another one of these "I'm smarter and more enlightened than the average dumb Metalhead" types that seem to be a dime-a-dozen these days particularly on Metal forums. Keep your self-important moral superiority to yourself and stop lecturing and talking down to everyone with your p.c. bullshit.

A post that doesn't exist?! Oh well. 'twat' seems to be the current internet insult of choice. You insult me for playing better-than-the-rest when in fact I am doing the opposite, trying to stick my neck out for the so-called 'idiots'. Whatever your problem is, it's not me.

What do you mean I conveniently invented Idiots,these people are idiots if they think I should cater to their downloading needs and just give them any album they want because they "don't have the time to bother with it".

I don't think you should do anything you don't want to do. But I also don't see where the value judgement comes on people who download files from you. Why are they idiots? Because you didn't search on someone else's files instead of yours first? It's file-sharing, they input a filename and you come up, that's all.

It's funny to me that you're being so sanctimonious about your selection of metal rarities and how it's for 'the good people' only, much of which you've accumulated is as you've said yourself by drive-by leeching when people with large collections are sleeping and can't ban you. You've built your collection then, on the biggest reason-for-banning most users hold to in soulseek: leeching without sharing.

those are the type of people I refer to, so what if someone approaches you online and says give me every mp3 on your computer I seriously doubt you will.

As long as they're sharing files as well, and they download one album at a time from me (so other people can also get what they need) I have no problem with that. It's not mine. I downloaded it from the internet. From like-minded people.

Maybe your friend should find it himself,the recording itself is illegal to begin with and should be kept outside of general public knowledge or metallica may take legal action.

We're discussing file-sharing, which is illegal altogether. Do you think tape-trading is legal? And what do you mean 'find it himself'? That's what he was trying to do! Someone has it, you politely ask if they could give you a copy.

You can usually tell if someone wants the music and if someone just wants to leech tons of albums. I don't believe I should share with others if they have nothing to share as well.

I don't share with people that don't share either. Is that your bottom-line in terms of who is worth sharing with? If they're sharing for example, 2 records, Master of Puppets and Holy Diver, would you share with them?

Helm needs to clarify his true argument, he seems to imply I should cater to people who are of a higher social status

Not at all. It is you who has labeled a group of people of nebulous distinction 'idiots' and to that I object to. I don't consider anyone of higher or lower social status in the group of priviledged computer-with-fast-connection-owning people.

nd I should just give files to fly by night leechers.

You mean like the people that say such things?:

I will admit I had to leech quite a bit from people who shared with everyone before I had enough to share to gain access to the music nazi's files I am not ashamed as that is the only way I could gain access to the rare gems,

...

I think the biggest problem with filesharing networks is the anonymity of it all.

I agree. On soulseek I've had many people come to me and tell me 'gosh that record is really great, thanks for sharing!' and I've done the same, and shot the shit about what else is similar and where else to look. I've made a few wonderful aquaintances from soulseek. It's not as faceless as torrents are, and yeah, the people that seem the most grateful and vocal about it are those that are searching for rarities.

[FenderMedium]

I don't share with people that don't share either. Is that your bottom-line in terms of who is worth sharing with? If they're sharing for example, 2 records, Master of Puppets and Holy Diver, would you share with them?

No I wouldn't because that isn't something I need, they probably just threw that in their in hopes of gaining access to some rare files anyway, I don't share with random people who have nothing to offer,If someone gains my friendship over time then they just may get full access to my files without having anything I want.

[Helm]

So now awesome rare record collection is an angle to get internet adoration?

*sigh* I really don't mean to insult, I'm just confronted with a glaring attitude that I dislike and I feel I have to comment in order to be right by myself. If you think I've overstepped the bounds of courtesy that apply to an internet conversation about these things, feel free to tell me and I'll drop it.

[FenderMedium]

So now awesome rare record collection is an angle to get internet adoration?
*sigh* I really don't mean to insult, I'm just confronted with a glaring attitude that I dislike and I feel I have to comment in order to be right by myself. If you think I've overstepped the bounds of courtesy that apply to an internet conversation about these things, feel free to tell me and I'll drop it.

I never claimed I was trying to get internet adoration, I said people who become my friends will get full access, I am not using to files to make friends online.

I have no reason to give a random person full access to my files.

[ION BRITTON]

Yeah, just like all those 0-post members of every forum do.

I take it you're being ironic, but no, those people of course belong in the same cathegory as filesharing leechers.

Of course they do and that's what i implied before.

It's really a universal, age-old issue of courtesy. If you want something from someone: 1. Introduce yourself 2. let me know what you need and why and 3. if only as a symbolic gesture, offer something in return. Civil standards like these are very difficult to keep when using filesharing software, that's why a semi-private forum like this is a superior alternative. Sure, it's not perfect but there's a health limit to how anal you should be about your collection.

It has occured to me to send stuff to other people without expecting anything in return. I did that because they were very polite and not rude and they really tried to offer me something in return even though i didn't really need anything from their collection. I eagerly gave them some stuff they were searching for because their whole behaviour was really cool and i really appreciated it.

The same thing has also happened to me while i was the one who was asking for rare stuff. You can never forget such people and i mean this in the best possible way.