Technothrash!

[Helm]

& also if you can find it: 'TARAMIS - Stretch Of The Imagination'! Great technical power thrash from Australia... a bit like Watchtower!?

The ''Power thrash'' term is correct, although this particular album leans more towards ''power''. Still recommended.

The two songs I've heard so far from that record are power/progressive metal, nothing thrash, nothing overly technocratic about them. They seem to be good though, so if I have space for Vauxdvihil in my collection, I have space for them.

Sieges Even: Well, only the debut fits the description of technothrash.

Correct.

However, it's my least favorite of their first three (and best) albums, more like a Watchtower rip-off, not much originality in any department.

This has been discussed a lot since 1989. It is of course very close to Watchtower, somewhere between Energetic and Control and Resistance, which makes sense chronologically. However it's extremely well-done a record (besides the vocals, which are at best an aquired taste) and therefore is elevated from knockoff to true masterpiece through sheer talent, application and balls. It takes balls to compose and perform that record. Still one of my favourites, and vastly superior to Energetic, looks eye to eye to Control and Resistance, and as far as THRASH goes, wins.

Noisenik, I agree with your points about technothrash generally, though I wouldn't include Voivod in that list (Voivod for me play Voivod music. They were never very technical, and their futurism is distinctively unlike the technocratic malevolence lyrical topics most of the other technothrash bands delt with). The second Watchtower record is progressive metal by that point, though it does bear its roots as thrash. They are included honorarily in the genere since uh, they um, created it, but really Control and Resistance is as much - musically, not conceptually - a thrash record as Psychotic Waltz's 'A Social Grace'.

I'll look into all the other bands you mentioned! I never knew Acid Reign had anything to do with the genre.

[Noisenik]

Noisenik, I agree with your points about technothrash generally, though I wouldn't include Voivod in that list (Voivod for me play Voivod music. They were never very technical, and their futurism is distinctively unlike the technocratic malevolence lyrical topics most of the other technothrash bands delt with). The second Watchtower record is progressive metal by that point, though it does bear its roots as thrash. They are included honorarily in the genere since uh, they um, created it, but really Control and Resistance is as much - musically, not conceptually - a thrash record as Psychotic Waltz's 'A Social Grace'.

I'll look into all the other bands you mentioned! I never knew Acid Reign had anything to do with the genre.

Well, it's pretty honourable to ascribe particular band a whole genre. Korgull will jump to the ceiling . Yet I'd still characterise them as Avant Metal. Well, I'd do that with Watch Tower, Celtic Frost and Coroner as well. And not many others if at all. Regarding Control And Resistance I do not withdraw. True, Psychotic Waltz are somewhat influenced by WT, but they are waaay milder than WT. To exclude VoiVod from the list might cut it by half. They are incredibly special, yet it is their vein of technothrash what you hear. After all, I'd say Technothrash albums(!) get inspired by WT or VoiVod. Of the influenced none get inspired by Coroner, for example. Both Toxik and Realm are indebted to WT. Holy Moses and Acid Reign to VoiVod. t.b.con.

[ION BRITTON]

However, it's my least favorite of their first three (and best) albums, more like a Watchtower rip-off, not much originality in any department.

However it's extremely well-done a record (besides the vocals, which are at best an aquired taste) and therefore is elevated from knockoff to true masterpiece through sheer talent, application and balls. It takes balls to compose and perform that record. Still one of my favourites, and vastly superior to Energetic, looks eye to eye to Control and Resistance, and as far as THRASH goes, wins.

Partly i agree. It takes real talent to perform that kind of music, but i think there are not enough original/new ideas on most of the songs, both on the music and the lyrics. From my point of view it doesn't stand a chance when facing albums like Energetic or Control. Watchtower were the true pioneers, the inventors of a whole metal genre and always were ahead of their time. Maybe Siege's Even debut sounded good or even great back then (due to the outbreak of the whole prog metal thing), but imo it didn't stand the test time.

[Helm]

Yeah I know that my Voivod clause seems strange but when I listen to Nothingface and earlier material, it's pretty clear to me this band is very individual and doesn't extude that sort of technothrash vibe at all. It's almost like robot music... closer to industrial, strangely. I know many would not agree. Technothrash is very human, in opposition to machine. Voivod are machines trying to be human, and say, Deathrow are humans opposing the machine, to make a rough abstract

Avant Metal is fine for me, as long as we don't call them Technothrash

I'd say between Watchtower and Voivod, there's lots of technothrash bands inspired by Mekong Delta as well, which you don't seem to aknowledge.

[Noisenik]

I'd say between Watchtower and Voivod, there's lots of technothrash bands inspired by Mekong Delta as well, which you don't seem to aknowledge.

Regarding MD I'm slightly less familiar with them, I'd say I didn't give them enough chance. They're more classical in a way. Also more melodic. As it is Coroner's Punishment For Decadence, which I am not as friendly with as with some other stuff mentioned. You have to understand that I am tritonus-propelled. I'm sorta transformed when I hear them. Couldn't explain you how I felt when I discovered Schoenberg and rest of serialists. Maybe that's my problem with MD and C-PfD.

[Helm]

Mekong Delta exist because a very highly trained musician/producer (and bassist) listened to Metallica's 'Fight Fire With Fire' on a tape given to him by Jorg Michael and said 'this has very interesting accents. I can do this better'. And he did.

They are classical, in the sense that they apply a lot of compositional ideas of russian romantic composers and such to their thrash. And if you like clashing dissonance and stuff, do yourself a favour and listen to 'Dances of Death' by Mekong Delta, the title track at least. This isn't Mozart. Violent, Stravinsky-like tempos and rhythm accents, repeated stanzas and very sharp twists and turns through a 20-minute pure technothrash marvel. You can't go wrong. When you give Mekong Delta a more serious chance, a piece of the puzzle will fall into place I think, about how a lot of later bands sound like they do. They're absolutely historically important for Heavy Metal, and unlike other historically important bands (like Venom. Please don't hurt me!) they are actually fucking awesome and timeless.

Punishment for Decadence is my favourite Coro.. .wait, not it's not. Gah, truly the sign of a great band, my favourite album constantly changes. I think I like 'Mental Vortex' more this week. Anyway, yeah it's very strictly melodic and there's not a lot of minor seconds or anything. It's almost neoclassical, yes. but Mekong Delta aren't very neoclassical in the end. If you heard their early records, return to them circa Dances of Death, Kaledroscope and Principle of Doubt for a full picture.

Schoenberg, serialism et al. had its influence on my listening habits as well (especially Ligeti) but if I were to classify Mekong Delta on the 'ease of listening' classical scale, where Beethoven is on one side and let's say Iannis Xenakis on the other, Mekong Delta sit somewhere in the middle (Bartok, perhaps?)

[Noisenik]

Hmm, Helm, which originators of TT you would also expose? How about the band Cranium you mentioned? Who are they and from which Metal era?

[Helm]

I mainly consider Watchtower, Voivod, Mekong Delta and Metallica circa-And Justice (1989) to have done the most influencing. Metallica might seem an odd choice, but it's said Ulrich was influenced by Watchtower during the And Justice sessions, and a *lot* of people listened to Metallica at the time.

I don't think there's more innovators than those bands. Generally, Confessor have been very influential for the 'math metal' bands.

Cranium are an instrumental modern-day jazz-fusion-improv trio that has absurdly good chops and thrashes it out occasionally. They're not really true to form, but they're worthwhile, as are for example Voivod-meets-Mastodon Verse and Radiation, for another modern example. I guess they should not have been included in the original list.

I'm afraid there exists no straight-laced serious technothrash anymore anywhere. There's lots of showy players on any genre of metal, but there's no technothrash aesthetic anymore.

[Noisenik]

Metallica might seem an odd choice,

Proper choice! And I have to add early Meshuggah to the list. They were both VoiVod and Metallica inspired.

I don't think there's more innovators than those bands. Generally, Confessor have been very influential for the 'math metal' bands.

Confessor may be one of the strangest ever. Killer band.

I'm afraid there exists no straight-laced serious technothrash anymore anywhere. There's lots of showy players on any genre of metal, but there's no technothrash aesthetic anymore.

Sadly agreed! But I don't even dream of any solution regarding this.

[Helm]

Well the rise of a second global super-power to oppose the US and lock into a dead-end cold war with them would certainly help! The question is, am I ridiculous enough to think a few good technothrash albums resulting of such a geopoliltical situation are worth the massive human suffering that is the natural byproduct of a cold war?

Yes. I am bad enough to rescue the president.

Also, this would probably create the horrible living conditions in certain parts of the world needed for obscure bands to start coming out to mirror the Ugoslavian/Russian scene some here seem to love so much.

[Noisenik]

Well, it really seems that TT passed with Cold War, but as the new is on the rise ...

some more ados to the list (again broader notion and in no order):

Gammacide
Geisha Goner
Juggernaut
End Amen
Donor
Form
Drifter (some would add 'em, rather debatable but still)
Homicide
Tossic
Sacrosanct
Sacrificial
Bezerker
Hellwitch (some say this is death metal. For me it's firmly in realm of Sadus, yet crazier)
Astharoth
Despair
Detterent
Inner Strength
Nuclear Symphony
Secrecy
Apocrypha
Broken Glazz
Bad Yodelers

may open new dee-bates, though. seriously the value added of these might not be that significant, but one still may find sth worthwhile. there exist some more demo only bands, but with them I am yet to bother fellow members of this forum, be it in "Need some info ..." or elsewhere.

[Korgüll]

Avant Metal is fine for me, as long as we don't call them Technothrash

Voivod is Space Metal!!!!!!!

[Korgüll]

> Aftermath

I really, really, really like the other Aftermath as well (the 'Don't Cheer Me Up' one) ...if not more so...!

...you can get Sindrome from here: http://www.rockadrome.com/superstore/pr ... cts_id=966

IMO, I regard 'Toxik-Think This' as a totally exceptional stand-out release in this genre!

Some others to check out maybe:
MYSTREZ (Think you might really like this if you havent heard already! Bit like Anacrusis)
STS 8 MISSION (Kinda )
CAULDRON BORN (you gotta check this out, not thrash but very tech-epic power metal - HTF!)

[Helm]

from my last few finds:

The sindrome demo tapes are nice, this is definately death metal, for me. They remind me a little of second-demo-era Cynic, perhaps a bit of Pestilence. Not really a technically-minded band (hehe like Cynic and Pestilence aren't technically-minded, Helm? I mean, not excessively technical, really. Technothrash sets the bar pretty high ), certainly not technothrash.

Cracked Brain - and to a degree 'Release from Agony' are interesting records bearing more listening before I'm to say anything about them. Boy, Mike sure liked his sweep-picking at the time, though! I find it odd that a band would progress like Destruction did from Infernal to this, and then devolve to suit public interest once the original bassist/vocalist returns to the band.

Accuser are more interesting for me, for besides of the singer there seems to be a lot of attention paid to the construction of their songs and the individual performances, though they're really not flashy. Again, I'll have to listen to this lots to have a concrete opinion, but I am certainly glad I checked them out so far!

Obliveon were a revelation for me. Certainly a band with distinct vision and style, I might end up buying Nemesis if I can find it on reasonable prices. Again, perhaps not technothrash, but certainly interesting! I basically expect this from a lot of recommendations on this thread (like Stone of whom I'm quite informed and are quite okay, but are nothing more than a thrash band with good, flashy guitarists) but that's fine.

Now Usurper, they are certainly interesting. My mind can't seem to grasp the few songs I've heard repeatedly so far though, so I'm going to keep listening to one track (Behind Mandela's Mask, I've chosen) until I've gotten my head around the parts and structure. Superficially they seem a bit unmemorable, but that might be here or there really. Their singer is sorta annoying (reminds me of Stone's), but hey, if I've grown to love worse I can deal with this. There's a bit of a Believer influence here I think.

I regard 'Toxik-Think This'

As a person that loves the genre, I hear them namedropped lots and I consider them sub-par, really. Their songwriting isn't up to their level of flash. Realm are the better of the 'little two' of Technothrash, though not by much. A lot of people swear by 'Think This' but I can't really agree. 'Slay the Opressor' for example, slays anything Toxik did in its R.I.P-Coroner fury.

Also a recommendation from my original list, give a listen to, if you can, to Calhoun Conquer - Lost in Oneself. They are very quirky and very very clearly technothrash, besides Deathrow's Deception Ignored, this is what I usually play for people who don't know what the genre is about and want to find out.

Getting the Dyoxen record as you read this.

[DaN]

The sindrome demo tapes are nice, this is definately death metal, for me. They remind me a little of second-demo-era Cynic, perhaps a bit of Pestilence. Not really a technically-minded band (hehe like Cynic and Pestilence aren't technically-minded, Helm? I mean, not excessively technical, really. Technothrash sets the bar pretty high ), certainly not technothrash.

Did you listen to both demos? While "Into The Halls.." is my absolute fave, "Vault Of Inner Conscience" should fit you like a glove. Of Metal.