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omen of hate wrote:Another stupid question about them : is the band still active ?

No, they haven't done anything since 2002. On paper the band still exists, with the lineup Zak Stevens/Jon Oliva/Chris Caffery/Al Pitrelli/Johnny Lee Middleton/Jeff Plate, but everybody's busy with other stuff. Caffery, Pitrelli, Middleton and Plate all record and perform with the platinum selling and massively successful Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Oliva writes music for Trans-Siberian Orchestra and has his band Jon Oliva's Pain, which is basically the spirit of Savatage reincarnated with new musicians. This is as close as you get to Savatage today, his albums are definitely in the Savatage mould and he performs tons of Savatage classics live. Zak Stevens has his own band Circle II Circle, another Savatage inspired bunch.

Chris Caffery in particular has been very frustrated and desperately wants to do Savatage. What it boils down to, I think, is that Jon Oliva is not to keen on doing Savatage without Criss Oliva and now that TSO is making millions of dollars every year he doesn't feel like he has to anymore.

mordred wrote:The material featured on it is by far the most complex, progressive, dynamic and challenging they had ever written. HOTMK on the other hand is, while also a masterpiece, an album that most metalheads can understand and get into much easier than Gutter Ballet.

Although we're not dealing with any inconceivable to the average listener Slauter Xstroyes complexity standards in neither HOTMK or GB, yes maybe GB is a bit more complex and progressive, but I cannot agree that it's more dynamic than HOTMK.
Metalheads can get into HOTMK much more easily not because GB is anything beyond their level of comprehension, but because it's much more powerful and they simply can raise their fists and start headbanging to most of its tracks, that's what usually most metalheads expect and demand from a power metal album and at that HOTMK succeeds better than GB.
I think GB is the album that it's more accessible to people that are not much into metal or aren't metalheads at all. I've seen people who don't have to do anything with heavy metal to have compilation tapes with "When the crowds are gone", "Gutter ballet" or "Believe" which is from Streets, but I don't remember any of them mentioning "24 hrs ago", "Devastation" or "Strange wings". If you aint a metalhead I find it very difficult to understand and get into an album such as HOTMK or The Dungeons are calling, while GB and Streets have many tracks that are easier to digest and thus are more accessible to wider audiiences.

mordred wrote: It matters not which album you like more of course but... Vocally, Jon Oliva definitely pushed his voice one step further with Gutter Ballet album. "When the Crowds are Gone", a ballad or not, features the highest screams and singing he ever recorded.

Sceaming doesn't always equal vocal insanity. Oliva's perfomance on the title track of HOTMK is something you have to hear to believe it, it's not easily described with words, it's an out of this world perfomance, there's not anything like that in GB or in any of the later Savatage albums.

ION BRITTON wrote:Oliva's perfomance on the title track of HOTMK is something you have to hear to believe it, it's not easily described with words, it's an out of this world perfomance, there's not anything like that in GB or in any of the later Savatage albums.

What do you think of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tDOF2BHeVQ

mordred wrote:

ION BRITTON wrote:Oliva's perfomance on the title track of HOTMK is something you have to hear to believe it, it's not easily described with words, it's an out of this world perfomance, there's not anything like that in GB or in any of the later Savatage albums.

What do you think of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tDOF2BHeVQ

1. Horrible starting riff
2. Vocal lines very similar to HOTMK

The best from Savatage are Sirens and Hall of the Mountain King!!

HOTMK is an album that puts Svatage on the first league, beside bands like Maiden and Priest

Gutter ballet got only 3 or 4 really good songs, the rest is average.

Savatage is a legendary group. Most of their albums are quite notable and some of them are must for every metal fan. I agree with mordred that their best period is 1987 - 1993.

I think "Hall of the mountain king" is their best album. "Gutter Ballet" and "Edge of Thorns" are also exceptional but more melodic.

DaN wrote:"The Dungeouns Are Calling" is the seminal SAVATAGE-release for me - 5 pieces of Flawless Steel!

Yeah this is where it's at. Which track is the flawed one? The Whip?

Avenger wrote: Gross. Especially when the majority of the bands previous albums slay the shit out of this one 10 times over.
Too many fucking keyboards and lack of balls.

I respect your opinion but don't share it. The album is simply pure perfection for me, there is some of the finest quality music and a lot of variety (either musically and vocals), not counting some of the best guitar solos ever listened (Criss RIP ;_; !).

Avenger wrote: Seriously, minus "The Unholy" and "She's In Love" is the rest of that album even Metal?

"Of Rage and War", what is for you ? And, besides the intro, "Mentally Yours" (one of the heaviest song ever from Savatage, the rhythm part while the guitar solo KILLS) ? "Hounds" (with that great acceleration in the end) ? "Thorazine Shuffle" doomy riffs ?
Whatever Mordred says I totally agree with him anyway, he's like a written book IMHO we must be some kind of twins lol

mordred wrote:

GJ wrote:t;]...and the crime of introducing the sissy "musical" genre into metal.

I think you are mixing it up with Streets: A Rock Opera, the album from 1991 that followed Gutter Ballet. That is a musical (and one of the best albums ever of course).

No, that one is worse in that matter of course, but I thought of "When the crowds are gone". Good albums both of them (GB & Streets...), but I still dislike the direction they took on them. And even moreso, the influence that direction has had on the metal world since.

Helstar - you truly speaketh the truth. Cheers mate!

Just a little statement from me here:

1. Gutter Ballet (1989) 10/10
1. Streets: A Rock Opera (1991) 10/10
1. Edge of Thorns (1993) 10/10
4. Hall of the Mountain King (1987) 9/10
5. The Wake of Magellan (1997) 8/10
6. Handful of Rain (1994) 8/10
7. The Dungeons are Calling (1984) 8/10
8. Poets and Madmen (2001) 7/10
9. Sirens (1983) 7/10
10. Dead Winter Dead (1995) 7/10
11. Fight for the Rock (1986) 5/10
12. Power of the Night (1985) 5/10

mordred wrote:4. Hall of the Mountain King (1987) 9/10
6. Handful of Rain (1994) 8/10
7. The Dungeons are Calling (1984) 8/10
8. Poets and Madmen (2001) 7/10

How dare you underrate these classics!

Here's my ratings:

Hall of the Mountain King (1987) 10/10
Edge of Thorns (1993) 9/10
The Dungeons are Calling (1984) 8.5/10
Gutter Ballet (1989) 8.5/10
Power of the Night (1985) 8/10
The Wake of Magellan (1997) 8/10
Sirens (1983) 7.5/10
Handful of Rain (1994) 7.5/10
Streets: A Rock Opera (1991) 7/10
Dead Winter Dead (1995) 6/10
Poets and Madmen (2001) 3/10
Fight for the Rock (1986) 3/10

"Sirens", "Hall Of The Mountain King" and "Gutter Ballet" are my favorites. Great band, always with many interesting aspects and a long spell where they glazed as one most creative metal bands of their times. But i never got into "Streets: A Rock Opera" by the way. What is this album about? I never found out, i always fell asleep halfway through.

In general i feel 80s SAVATAGE > post 80s SAVATAGE. With the exception of "Fight For Rock" obviously.

The Dungeons are Calling: 10/10
Hall of the Mountain King: 9/10
Sirens: 8-/10
Power of the Night 7/10
Gutter Ballet: 6.5/10
Fight for Rock: 5/10

I can second what Ion Britton said about accessability. At least I got into Gutter Ballet straight away back when I was starting to get into Heavy Metal. Nowadays I rarely revisit the album and when I do it's mostly because of the title track which is pretty good and also very nostalgic for me. Overall I prefer even Power of the Night (pretty enjoyable album though a flawed one nonetheless) over it. I would give Sirens maybe 8.5 or something if it wasn't for a few weaker songs (i.e. Out on the Streets, Living for the Night and perhaps On the Run) but I don't have anything good to say about Fight for Rock (where's the closest trashcan?). Dungeons and HOTMK are by far the most excellent material the band did. The song 'The Dungeons Are Calling' is what I love about Savatage in a nutshell. The twisted and idiosyncrotic riffs, brute force, loads of atmosphere and Oliva's harsh and insane vocals. The little of the later stuff I've heard seemed to miss at least the cool riffing style and the meatiness and is whole 'nother thing overall but it's not for me I guess.

The Erlking wrote:I can second what Ion Britton said about accessability. At least I got into Gutter Ballet straight away back when I was starting to get into Heavy Metal.

I had the same the first time I heard Hall Of The Mountain King. It was one of my first heavy metal records and it's still up there among my favourites.