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ION BRITTON wrote:I would also add BRIDE, the excellent SCARLET RAYNE and the mighty TYRANT from the US.

I'm not sure if I should call bands like TYRANT, CANDLEMASS or SOLITUDE A as Christian Metal. I wouldnt call them like that actually, rather I find their lyrics much mystique or even gothic.

Were Solitude Aeturnus christian???

If you ask me they were. I remember having a dispute 15 years ago with a guy who went on to praise them for their positive lyrics. I was much too much into Morbid Angel, Immolation at the time to share his opinion and to young not to laugh at him. But I liked threir music too. Lines like "listen to the words (voice?) of the teacher" are more than a proof for byblical view of the world. Anyway, I still find these writings as a means to scare people, and what sense has to warn sb about doom that is inevitable. Heck, so did Maiden. Bah, if the music is cool, then there's no need to listen to the lyrics. More important is that the syllables go well with the musical lines.

metalmaster wrote:

ION BRITTON wrote:I would also add BRIDE, the excellent SCARLET RAYNE and the mighty TYRANT from the US.

I'm not sure if I should call bands like TYRANT, CANDLEMASS or SOLITUDE A as Christian Metal. I wouldnt call them like that actually, rather I find their lyrics much mystique or even gothic.

I don't know about CANDLEMASS or SOLITUDE. But TYRANT have a track called "Fight for the Nazarene" and also "King of kings" etc. They're not 100% WM in the way for example STRYPER were as there were surely some darker lyric themes in their albums, but i think their message is basically christianic.

I wouldn't call CANDLEMASS, SOLITUDE or TYRANT (wah!) white metal either.

Even SAVIOUR MACHINE, that in many/most of their lyrics deal with themes from the bible, are seen very controverse in the white-metal scene afaik.
Just singing/speaking about god isn't the same than praising/worshipping him. I know they do the first, still not sure about the second.

..."You are the reason for the wars that plague the land
you are the symbol for the cause in which they stand
you are the one who sits there watching as they die
you are the son of man that listens as they cry

JESUS CHRIST - Vengeance is mine
JESUS CHRIST - Leave them behind
JESUS CHRIST - Vengeance is mine
JESUS CHRIST - Please - leave them to die"...
(track from their legendary debut album)

I LOVE their lyrics, but I am sometimes not sure if I get their intended meaning ("American Babylon"), guess I need some more english lessons to fully grap SAVIOUR MACHINE
However, they fucking rule!!! One of the best bands of the 90ies!!!!

OmenOfSteel wrote:.
Just singing/speaking about god isn't the same than praising/worshipping him. I know they do the first, still not sure about the second.

In the second case 90% of the bands ended up soundind at least naive and sometimes even ridiculous. Example: NEON CROSS have a track called "Children of our Lord" or something like that on their s/t album. The chorus is fuckin' catchy, but that's also where they sing altogether "We are the children of our lord(children of our lord)..." It's a killer melody, but, sorry, i can NOT sing THIS verse. It's sounds silly and naive to my ears and the only thing it succeeds is in ruining a great hook. So, from this point of view yes, TYRANT, CANDLEMASS and SA were not white metal. I don't believe in Jesus Christ and i really don't know if God exists, but i CAN/COULD sing along w/ Eric Clayton the outstanding chorus of "Jesus Christ". I don't know if there is a widely-accepted definiton of what really White Metal is, as far as i'm concerned however, serious and challenging ''white'' lyric themes are always welcome. And i do consider them "White Metal".

Interesting discussion we started btw.

ION BRITTON wrote:

metalmaster wrote:

ION BRITTON wrote:I would also add BRIDE, the excellent SCARLET RAYNE and the mighty TYRANT from the US.

I'm not sure if I should call bands like TYRANT, CANDLEMASS or SOLITUDE A as Christian Metal. I wouldnt call them like that actually, rather I find their lyrics much mystique or even gothic.

I don't know about CANDLEMASS or SOLITUDE. But TYRANT have a track called "Fight for the Nazarene" and also "King of kings" etc. They're not 100% WM in the way for example STRYPER were as there were surely some darker lyric themes in their albums, but i think their message is basically christianic.

well Candlemass have this song Samarithan, also the whole Tales of creation lps, and if I'm right, 1 or 2 songs in Ancient Dreams deal with christan themes. Demons gate as a very good example:

scared I was with my hand on my cross
I went into the demons gate

I didn't know TYRANT were Christian, oh well nevermind, another kick arse one then. SAINT are the best IMO. Times End is a relentless fist pumping classic. I remember getting it for $1AU on an impulse buy (mind you the seller who lived only 25km charged me $11AU postage cheap bastard) and it has become one of my favourite LPs ever. ARMAGEDDON The Money Mask isn't that consistant but it has its moments. VENGEANCE, INCUBUS decent death metal. I never got into Lightforce/Mortification.

It seems alot of doom metal has christian references even though its not considered full out white metal and I've noticed quite a bit christian themes in all of john oliva and david waynes works.

No one mentions one of the best (both musical & technical) Christian metal bands still around(?):
Tourniquet!
Their first release 'Stop The Bleeding' has a mass of bible excerpts ...
Later releases (e.g. 'Pathogenic Ocular Dissonance') are a little less biblically inspired but still very phylosophical.
Music wise: think of a white metal version of e.g. Watchtower!

VALOR - fight for your life is indeed also a good example of the fact that Christian metal is much more than Stryper, etc ...

Pepsiswasp
P.S.
I'm a (hard) atheist!
I don't care about bands trying to preach, but many Christian bands do have more interesting (than the rudimental metal/warrior/satan/whatever) lyrics.
BTW, for those more into hard rock, listen to Mastedon (no, NOT Mastodon).

Lyricwise I think CENTURION wrote the best stuff in WM. I don't have the album around at the moment, but the writing is really deep an well articulated, very far from your average Metal-prose. It really enhances the whole listening experience and you don't really care if the underlying message is that of Xiandom.

pepsiswasp wrote:No one mentions one of the best (both musical & technical) Christian metal bands still around(?):
Tourniquet!
Their first release 'Stop The Bleeding' has a mass of bible excerpts ...
Later releases (e.g. 'Pathogenic Ocular Dissonance') are a little less biblically inspired but still very phylosophical.
Music wise: think of a white metal version of e.g. Watchtower!

VALOR - fight for your life is indeed also a good example of the fact that Christian metal is much more than Stryper, etc ...

Pepsiswasp
P.S.
I'm a (hard) atheist!
I don't care about bands trying to preach, but many Christian bands do have more interesting (than the rudimental metal/warrior/satan/whatever) lyrics.
BTW, for those more into hard rock, listen to Mastedon (no, NOT Mastodon).

Ha, I was just going to say the same about Tourniquet, that nobody mentioned them!! Gods!¨I prefer lyrics of their latest albums (Moth & Rust), Stop the Bleeding is musically my favourite Tourniquet release, but I really can't stand the over the top preachy lyrics.

Not as bad as Vengeance Rising, though.

"
Do not be afraid for He is risen
All authority has been given to Him
Worship Him, and only Him
Jesus Christ, the Almighty"

Come on!

Believer were great, especially their second release. Sacrament released two solid death/thrash albums, Detritus were a so so average English thrash with US influences. Ultimatum is also a cool band, though they suffer the Vengeance Rising disease with their third grade poems about Jesus.

I have been amazed at how many bands in the 80's were ambigously hiding their religious beliefs from the public. I intialy thought this was rare but keep finding more and more bands that were really good despite my atheistic perspective.

Cases in point:

Avalance - Pray for the Sinner (brilliant album)

Bloodgood - Eponymous (brilliantly humorous)

Trouble (Early Stuff)

Preyer - Fear of the Dark Demo (Awesome)

Anyone know of any others that I am missing out on?

Please keep the obvious shout-out's to Petra and Stryper to yourselves.

SAINT VITUS.

i remember tourniquet was pretty good. they were christian i think?

heres a clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maLJsLodcDw

Yeah, Tourniquet are a Christian band. My favorite with Believer!

Trouble had a Christian perspective, but they weren't really a Christian band. Same with Realm, which also wrote a lot of stuff from Christian perspective, although it wasn't the normal x-ian thing ala Mortification.