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Avenger wrote:

In The Raw wrote:I just like my bands to stick to their strengths and not try to hop on some bandwagon because they think they can get more sales.

JAGUAR were a brilliant nwobhm/proto-speed metal band. They could have gone on to far more success by sticking with their original sound. Instead, they try this "dance metal" thing and wind up competing with a million other bands that are already doing the same kind of thing.

Sellouts rarely work. For every DEF LEPPARD there are a hundred JAGUARS or RAVENS.

You do realize that by purchasing this, you are only supporting the sell-out movement that you claim to dislike.

Never the less, wasting $10.00 that could have went towards an album that's actually good...

I never bought this when it came out - maybe that would have been considered supporting "the sell-out movement". "This Time" is now over 20 years old so I'd say the expiration date on that has passed. Its now little more than a footnote in metal history.

I have thousands of cds - and some of them I buy to complete discographies for bands that I collect. That means that I sometimes buy "bad albums".

Considering how many bands and independent labels I have supported with my cash over the years I don't exactly feel guilty about dropping 10 bucks on this cd.

In The Raw wrote:

Avenger wrote:

In The Raw wrote:I just like my bands to stick to their strengths and not try to hop on some bandwagon because they think they can get more sales.

JAGUAR were a brilliant nwobhm/proto-speed metal band. They could have gone on to far more success by sticking with their original sound. Instead, they try this "dance metal" thing and wind up competing with a million other bands that are already doing the same kind of thing.

Sellouts rarely work. For every DEF LEPPARD there are a hundred JAGUARS or RAVENS.

You do realize that by purchasing this, you are only supporting the sell-out movement that you claim to dislike.

Never the less, wasting $10.00 that could have went towards an album that's actually good...

I never bought this when it came out - maybe that would have been considered supporting "the sell-out movement". "This Time" is now over 20 years old so I'd say the expiration date on that has passed. Its now little more than a footnote in metal history.

I have thousands of cds - and some of them I buy to complete discographies for bands that I collect. That means that I sometimes buy "bad albums".

Considering how many bands and independent labels I have supported with my cash over the years I don't exactly feel guilty about dropping 10 bucks on this cd.

Well, if this is a legitimate pressing, (which is questionable for Metal Mind Productions in some cases) a percentage will still go to the band (or at least a member) due to original contract obligations.

Avenger wrote:

stormspell wrote: Hmm, Cold Lake is my favorite CF album by far, so maybe I should check this Jaguar after all?

Err... Don't go there...

I'd like to think that I have a high tolerance for "softer" Hard Rock/Metal even listening to the odd "Hair Band" at times due to a friend of mine that's hugely into that scene, but it literally took me 3-4 attempts just to get through the first song on this album.

It was just such a blatant letdown and I am forever devastated after nearly worshipping "Power Games" upon the initial listen.



EDIT: Just to add to the Amazon.com purchase aspect, did you actually buy this from AMAZON, or from an independant seller that sells ON AMAZON?

The reason I ask is because I have received bootlegs on Amazon way back in the past due to the lack of details the indiviual listings normally give, so...

I havent bought either of the albums in question from Amazon, you must have mistaken me with someone else.

In The Raw wrote:Interesting what Stormspell had to say. Not only do I have a tolerance for a lot of softer stuff - I LOVE a lot of aor and melodic metal as well as a huge amount of 70's hard rock.

What I really cannot take is most hair metal. Aside from the first MOTLEY CRUE lp (which I think is actually pretty heavy and sort of a trash rock classic) stuff like POISON, NITRO and that stuff makes me want to throw up.

I just like my bands to stick to their strengths and not try to hop on some bandwagon because they think they can get more sales.

JAGUAR were a brilliant nwobhm/proto-speed metal band. They could have gone on to far more success by sticking with their original sound. Instead, they try this "dance metal" thing and wind up competing with a million other bands that are already doing the same kind of thing.

Sellouts rarely work. For every DEF LEPPARD there are a hundred JAGUARS or RAVENS.

At least with something like DIAMOND HEAD's "Canterbury" I can see what they were trying to do. Its a complex record with some interesting progressive touches and not just a lame pop metal lp.

I also tend to listen to a lot of AOR/MHR. Of course I have my preferences too and the majority of the commercial shit like POISON, FASTER PUSSYCAT, etc. never worked for me, but there are also some other commercial bands which I dig and enjoy, like DEF LEPPARD, PRETTY MAIDS, CASANOVA, or T'n'T just to name a few. I guess I'm too old and cynical and don't bother what is considered true and whatnot anymore and just enjoy and listen to what really appeals to my taste.

In case of Celtic Frost, I truly believe Tom Warrior was clueless and was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time when creating the early classics. Sort of learning how to play and going along. Once they got popular and he could afford it, he put the one album which was truly on his heart - Cold Lake. All you need is to check the Hammersmith Odeon VHS to see that he is really happy playing those songs - he shines and is all smiles man, enjoying every second of it. And I can feel this energy when I'm spinning the record - it is crude and naive, sort of underground glam, but at the same time very sincere and energetic and always bring smile to my face.

Later Tom Warrior disavowed this album of course, under the collective pressure from fans and the label, but whatever he says, he never wrote anything so honest and sincere ever since, especially when compared to recycled and tired shit like Monotheist while wearing adidas jogging suit and beanie cap, ugh! I liked him more with the L.A. Guns shirt and lipstick

Avenger wrote:Well, if this is a legitimate pressing, (which is questionable for Metal Mind Productions in some cases) a percentage will still go to the band (or at least a member) due to original contract obligations.

The band seem to acknowledge the release. So perhaps they actually got some money for it.

stormspell wrote:

Avenger wrote:

stormspell wrote: Hmm, Cold Lake is my favorite CF album by far, so maybe I should check this Jaguar after all?

Err... Don't go there...

I'd like to think that I have a high tolerance for "softer" Hard Rock/Metal even listening to the odd "Hair Band" at times due to a friend of mine that's hugely into that scene, but it literally took me 3-4 attempts just to get through the first song on this album.

It was just such a blatant letdown and I am forever devastated after nearly worshipping "Power Games" upon the initial listen.



EDIT: Just to add to the Amazon.com purchase aspect, did you actually buy this from AMAZON, or from an independant seller that sells ON AMAZON?

The reason I ask is because I have received bootlegs on Amazon way back in the past due to the lack of details the indiviual listings normally give, so...

I havent bought either of the albums in question from Amazon, you must have mistaken me with someone else.

That wasn't intended for you. Hence, why it was seperated and was replied to by the proper person already =/

Black Axe wrote:Vandale's new song

New Vandale? You've got to be joking!

Ernest Thesiger wrote:

Black Axe wrote:Vandale's new song

New Vandale? You've got to be joking!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpVghff4bPU

Among the worst crap I've heard in years.

Unless you like lame pop music, then this will rock your world. I still don't believe it's the same band.

never been into Jaguar that much...but does it really sucks that much?

In The Raw, i actually feel much respect for people like you, that as fan of a band, u buy even the shittiest albums,is no sarcasm, i really respect that cause i wouldnt see me doing that never

The re-issue got a shocking 7/10 review in Sweden Rock Magazine.

so wait, there's a metal album that's worse than BULLDOZER's 'rap' EP "dance gone sick"? i've gotta hear this now!

oh yeah, 'power games' rules.

Hellpreacher wrote:so wait, there's a metal album that's worse than BULLDOZER's 'rap' EP

Nothing is worse than a rap EP.

Black Axe wrote:

Hellpreacher wrote:so wait, there's a metal album that's worse than BULLDOZER's 'rap' EP

Nothing is worse than a rap EP.

This comes close though.

Avenger wrote:

Black Axe wrote:

Hellpreacher wrote:so wait, there's a metal album that's worse than BULLDOZER's 'rap' EP

Nothing is worse than a rap EP.

This comes close though.

No. I'd rather listen to this album 100000 times than to a Rap EP or nu-'sound'.

I've never heard the material on "This Time" because all of the reviews were so horrific. Is it really that bad?
It wouldn't be the first time that a band fell off a cliff after releasing a classic (Power Games in this case).