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I'm not saying this is a huge controversy, just a bit odd.

Helm wrote:Not to make it a bigger deal than it has been made in this thread but it *is* odd for a revivalist speed metal band to not know Savage Grace.

I think you are slightly missing the point. It's indeed surprising if he didn't know Savage Grace. But even if it's odd to find a speed metal enthusiast that has missed out on Savage Grace, what do you do when you meet one?
I know I would say "hey, you really should check them out, I'm sure you would like it!". Apparently though some wouldn't, instead they go on an internet forum, badmouth people writing things like "So many of them are posers" and "I don't have much respect for this guy". For what? For not knowing a band?

Helm wrote:It's like a revivalist german power metal band like Stormwarrior not knowing Helloween. Just.... imagine if you read an interview with Lonewolf or someone and they said they didn't know who Running Wild were.

No, this is just not comparable at all I think. Helloween and Running Wild are both still active and have released dozens of albums, all of which can still be obtained. Everyone even the least into metal knows Helloween and Running Wild to some extent.
Savage Grace did two albums before they split up, over 20 years ago. Perhaps even before the guys in question were even born. And Savage Grace's albums have been out of print since god knows when. In fact, most metalheads below 30 years of age don't know Savage Grace.

I think you are slightly missing the point. It's indeed surprising if he didn't know Savage Grace. But even if it's odd to find a speed metal enthusiast that has missed out on Savage Grace, what do you do when you meet one?
I know I would say "hey, you really should check them out, I'm sure you would like it!". Apparently though some wouldn't, instead they go on an internet forum, badmouth people writing things like "So many of them are posers" and "I don't have much respect for this guy". For what? For not knowing a band?

I totally agree I'd write that dude a cd or give him the mp3s or something and be happy if he liked them, I wouldn't put my nose up to him. I would just would still find it very strange... for a genre as oddly-defined and short-lived as speed metal, Savage Grace are as important and fundamental to it as Helloween for teutonic power metal. The genre existed for what? 2-3 years tops before a branch of it metastasized completely towards thrash metal and another towards power metal proper. Of course there aren't any bands as long-lasting as RW or Helloween there, then. Which is all more the reason I'd expect a speed metal enthusiast in a revivalist speed metal band to be familiar with the scattershot discography we usually attribute the term to. It's exactly the sorta uberobscure almost-genre/ record collector enthusiast scum (:P) gravitate towards, you know...

Helm wrote:Not to make it a bigger deal than it has been made in this thread but it *is* odd for a revivalist speed metal band to not know Savage Grace. It's like a revivalist german power metal band like Stormwarrior not knowing Helloween. Just.... imagine if you read an interview with Lonewolf or someone and they said they didn't know who Running Wild were.

With that I do not mean to say the music of such a band might be entirely without merit because they didn't know their history. In fact it would be completely excusable for a first wave say, doom metal band to not have heard Trouble or Candlemass because back then things progressed in parallel in various parts of the world. But let's face it, revivalist bands like this are very self-aware about what HM is and they start out trying to emulate and "bring back" a certain near-forgotten aesthetic... You'd expect them to be really into speed metal then, and who into speed metal doesn't know or appreciate Savage Grace? It's just odd.

And that cover is pretty awful.

Thank you.

I'm glad to see that at least SOMEBODY was able to grasp what I was saying.

Either way, because the rest of you keep wanting to continue with this, I'm going to have this discussion split into it's own topic...

mordred wrote:

Helm wrote:Not to make it a bigger deal than it has been made in this thread but it *is* odd for a revivalist speed metal band to not know Savage Grace.

I think you are slightly missing the point. It's indeed surprising if he didn't know Savage Grace. But even if it's odd to find a speed metal enthusiast that has missed out on Savage Grace, what do you do when you meet one?
I know I would say "hey, you really should check them out, I'm sure you would like it!". Apparently though some wouldn't, instead they go on an internet forum, badmouth people writing things like "So many of them are posers" and "I don't have much respect for this guy". For what? For not knowing a band?

No, you are continually missing the point here.

I'm "badmouthing" him for his "Metal" outtake, not because he doesn't know one specific band. That was just simply one example.

And don't downplay modern day music enthusiasts and using the internet as if it's frowned upon because it's by far the most accessible, easiest and highly common source of information and interaction.

Not all of us live in Germany where the Metal scene is still huge.

mordred wrote:No, this is just not comparable at all I think. Helloween and Running Wild are both still active and have released dozens of albums, all of which can still be obtained. Everyone even the least into metal knows Helloween and Running Wild to some extent.
Savage Grace did two albums before they split up, over 20 years ago. Perhaps even before the guys in question were even born. And Savage Grace's albums have been out of print since god knows when. In fact, most metalheads below 30 years of age don't know Savage Grace.

Actually, if you guys would stop desperately trying to protect the "cult, mega-obscurity" status that you want Savage Grace to have, you would realize that the band really isn't that unknown.

Speed Metal in general, especially in it's pure form without any other major influences is a way more highly obscure sub-genre, then Power Metal with all it's hype today, so in my opinion, yes, Savage Grace are to Speed Metal what Helloween and Running Wild are to Power Metal.

Let's just put it this way:

You don't write an essay without doing your research first.

EDIT: I'd like to know where you got that "fact" about Savage Grave being unknown to bangers under 30...

Avenger wrote:

mordred wrote:No, this is just not comparable at all I think. Helloween and Running Wild are both still active and have released dozens of albums, all of which can still be obtained. Everyone even the least into metal knows Helloween and Running Wild to some extent.
Savage Grace did two albums before they split up, over 20 years ago. Perhaps even before the guys in question were even born. And Savage Grace's albums have been out of print since god knows when. In fact, most metalheads below 30 years of age don't know Savage Grace.

Actually, if you guys would stop desperately trying to protect the "cult, mega-obscurity" status that you want Savage Grace to have, you would realize that the band really isn't that unknown.

i agree with it, come on!,they were an L.A. band...

Where are the women? Grunt, grunt...

Am I bewildered? Yes.

Anyone who still thinks STRIKER are not "metal enough" or whatever is invited to check them out live on these dates:

Apr 10 2009 8:00P
Road Warrior EP release show @The Haven (Edmonton, Alberta)

Apr 11 2009 8:00P
Road Warrior EP release show @The Haven w/Evil Survives (Edmonton, Alberta)

"for modern bands" ? Sounds like we're teaching the failest of bands.

sadly enough, this is not about knowing a couple of "80s not so underground bands"...its all about being part of the nowdays trend(i wouldnt have said this,let say 3 years ago,would i?)...and in my eyes,they could play as"heavy n loud" as they may preach,but it just lacks of credibilty...some others find it pretty awsome,thst fine with me too,bleh...

I'd like to add that the people on this forum probably know more about 80's metal than 99.9% of the rest of the population, including most metalheads. I'm not saying we're some elitist bunch here, just that in these circumstances it's perhaps best not to compare others to yourself.

Goatstorm wrote:

Ha-ha, that image really says it all. Foolishness and snobbism...

Are Savage Grace an ultra obscure band? Of course not, I never said they were. Are Savage Grace an unknown band? Of course they are.

I would expect everybody on this forum to know, or at least know of, Savage Grace, but this forum isn't exactly for the average metalhead. You should not compare others to yourself. Most people see no reason whatsoever to care about bands that don't even exist any more, much less bands that ceased to exist 20 years ago and whose albums can't even be found other than 2nd hand. It's only natural that most metalheads that are too young to remember Savage Grace don't know them.

I myself started listening to metal in 1992 (if memory serves me right) and I NEVER heard ANYONE ever even mentioning the name Savage Grace until 2002. That's when I had got myself a record player and had started taken an interest in lesser known 80's metal. If I hadn't developed that special interest, which most of us share more or less, I would probably not have known today who the hell Savage Grace were.

Would someone please get those STRIKER-guys a couple of Savage Grace CD's for god`s sake?!

And, just to be on the safe side, a copy of "Skeptics Apocalypse" as well.

That sohuld settle it once and for all.

Sgt. Kuntz wrote:Would someone please get those STRIKER-guys a couple of Savage Grace CD's for god`s sake?!

And, just to be on the safe side, a copy of "Skeptics Apocalypse" as well.

That sohuld settle it once and for all.

And Abattoir, Mysto Dysto, Acid etc.

I thought the Striker dudes would be the sorta guys that would hang out in a forum like this, actually! heh