Non-urgent CD Inquiries READ THE FIRST POST

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:35 am

Proof that the guy running that website does not know what he is talking about:

http://www.manowar-gallery.com/Gallery/ ... /index.htm

If you scroll down to the US pressings he is trying to say that the disc with the IFPI Code is an earlier pressing then the one without

chatzial · Post by **chatzial** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:17 am

Once more. It is an unauthorised release.

This release is exactly the reason
why when it was re-released it had a sticker "no f.....n bootleg".

I don't get it my friend, why don't you trust me on this one. I am collecting Manowar since 1984. I remember when this one was released. It is a bootleg.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:37 pm

chatzial wrote:trust me on this one. I am collecting Manowar since 1984. I remember when this one was released.

I've been hearing this exact same shit on ebay for years by nearly every user that's trying to sell me something...

I don't believe opinions. I believe facts, logic and reasoning. None of which you have so far provided to try and convince me that this pressing is a bootleg.

The CD shown was not pressed at some shitty plant in russia or greece that only cares about making money. It was pressed at a legitimate plant in the US where they have quality control policies in place that only a designated licensing contract will result in CD's being pressed. If such documentation is not provided then the presses do not run.

It's pretty simple.

chatzial · Post by **chatzial** » Fri May 03, 2013 3:55 pm

Avenger wrote:
chatzial wrote:trust me on this one. I am collecting Manowar since 1984. I remember when this one was released.
I've been hearing this exact same shit on ebay for years by nearly every user that's trying to sell me something...

I don't believe opinions. I believe facts, logic and reasoning. None of which you have so far provided to try and convince me that this pressing is a bootleg.

The CD shown was not pressed at some shitty plant in russia or greece that only cares about making money. It was pressed at a legitimate plant in the US where they have quality control policies in place that only a designated licensing contract will result in CD's being pressed. If such documentation is not provided then the presses do not run.

It's pretty simple.

So you think. Where do you think that the early '90s CD and vinyl bootlegs were pressed? Dungeons? They were pressed in some of the finest European pressing plants.

And also i am not trying to sell you anything, those guys at Ebay usually try to sell bootlegs for originals. On the contrary, i was trying to convice you that it is a bootleg. I don't have anything to gain. Why don't you accept the fact that you are not a Mawar collector and i am, with hundrends of Manowar vinyls and CDs in my collection, most of them bought when they were released.

Here's is another similar case.
http://www.discogs.com/Manowar-Into-Glo ... se/3954173
This one has the same matrix as the MFN normal release. But it is a bootleg, released in the very early nineties (don't remember the exact date).
Maybe MFN was releasing Manowar products without permission or maybe somebody just used the same codes. Even if it was printed by MFN (like MAYBE the "Manowar Records" you say it is legit), MFN did not have the permition of the band to release this stuff. And that makes them bootlegs.

I really don't know how else to make things clearer. Manowar never gave permission for the "Manowar Records" releases. They are bootlegs.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sat May 04, 2013 12:32 am

I don't care how long you have been collecting Manowar merchandise for. That is irrelevant. I know how pressing plants work and what legal pressings look like. I'm not saying with certainty that this is legit but at the same time you have still failed to provide any proof to the contrary.

I'm not saying that the following example applies to this case but it's possible. I have in many occasions seen pressings that were originally legit later deemed (by the band or other people that purchased them) bootlegs because they decided that they weren't happy with the final result for whatever reason. Could this be the case here?

Helstar · Post by **Helstar** » Sat May 04, 2013 2:09 am

I think Avenger has a point (never noticed the three different pressings with seemingly 'legit' matrix codes), but anyway I think chatzial is right, these are indeed bootlegs. I too remember something said/written about these cds, they were pointed & looked "illegal" a mile away (the overall design and mastering quality are crappy).

I don't know how the owner of this "Manowar Records" accomplished to obtain batches of this cd pressed in 3 different well known and trustworthy manufacturing plants, but in the end everything could have happened (one of the band maybe ? An ex manager ?), we don't know that. It doesn't mean we have to say they have a chance of being legit, because it's notorious they're not.

chatzial · Post by **chatzial** » Sat May 04, 2013 9:28 am

I don't have to provide you with proof, we are not in court

Anyway my friend, i just wanted to clear things out about this release because another member (Shimrod) asked about it.

Avenger wrote:I don't care how long you have been collecting Manowar merchandise for. That is irrelevant. I know how pressing plants work and what legal pressings look like. I'm not saying with certainty that this is legit but at the same time you have still failed to provide any proof to the contrary.

I'm not saying that the following example applies to this case but it's possible. I have in many occasions seen pressings that were originally legit later deemed (by the band or other people that purchased them) bootlegs because they decided that they weren't happy with the final result for whatever reason. Could this be the case here?

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sun May 05, 2013 4:01 am

chatzial wrote:I don't have to provide you with proof, we are not in court
Anyway my friend, i just wanted to clear things out about this release because another member (Shimrod) asked about it.

Avenger wrote:I don't care how long you have been collecting Manowar merchandise for. That is irrelevant. I know how pressing plants work and what legal pressings look like. I'm not saying with certainty that this is legit but at the same time you have still failed to provide any proof to the contrary.

I'm not saying that the following example applies to this case but it's possible. I have in many occasions seen pressings that were originally legit later deemed (by the band or other people that purchased them) bootlegs because they decided that they weren't happy with the final result for whatever reason. Could this be the case here?

If you want to convince me you do.

What other source states these are bootlegs besides some random dude with a website that knows nothing about pressing specifics?

chatzial · Post by **chatzial** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:10 am

Avenger wrote:
If you want to convince me you do.

What other source states these are bootlegs besides some random dude with a website that knows nothing about pressing specifics?

What other source? Me!!! I still remember the time it was released. This was "advertised" by the dealers as a "fan club" release (like so many other bootlegs of that era).

Yakish · Post by **Yakish** » Tue May 14, 2013 2:30 pm

What's the very first CD pressing of Death "Scream Bloody Gore"?
My theory is:
1st was: Cat.#88561-8146-2, barcode 8856181462 and matrix Made by Discovery Systems - An American Company - 0L80100
2nd was: Cat.# CD FLAG 12, barcode 5016583201227 and matrix FLAG CD 12 MPO 02 @@
3rd was: Cat.# 88561-8146-2, barcode 088561814625 and matrix 88561-8146-2 (V) Mastered By Nimbus
don't care about any later version because they had DIDX matrix, IFPI codes and 100% out of my interest.
So, i tried to find answer with my own forces through google, but i guess what i found is not correct. People think version with NIMBUS matrix was the very first, but as far as i know this pressing plant didn't make Combat CDs in 1987, probably few years later, but not in 1987 that's why i think much real version for the very first press for DISCOVERY SYSTEMS matrix version. Also i have in collection Wild Dogs and Sword CDs that were made in the same DISCOVERY SYSTEMS pressing plant and they are defenitely first pressings from 1987.
Under One Flag version also from 1987, but it's already a license from Combat, so it's the 1987 european first press.

Heathen · Post by **Heathen** » Tue May 14, 2013 4:46 pm

Discovery Systems is definetly earlier than Nimbus and earlier or the same time as Under One Flag (but you will want a MPO 01 matrix).

In general, the fact that one label A has license from label B does not mean, that label B issue on a particular format came later.

Yakish · Post by **Yakish** » Wed May 15, 2013 6:28 am

Heathen wrote:Discovery Systems is definetly earlier than Nimbus and earlier or the same time as Under One Flag (but you will want a MPO 01 matrix).

Thanks! That's all i wanted to know, so my guesses are right then.

Heathen wrote:In general, the fact that one label A has license from label B does not mean, that label B issue on a particular format came later.

Probably you are right, but i always preferred to buy release of an album which been made in the country where band located. That's why i like for example SPV Germany or german Noise CD against SPV US or US Noise. Of course it's my own snappishness, because most of collectors will be happy with every early press, but i don't search for easy ways.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri May 17, 2013 4:32 am

Heathen wrote:Discovery Systems is definetly earlier than Nimbus.

Proof?

Totalthrash · Post by **Totalthrash** » Fri May 17, 2013 11:59 pm

In reference to the MPO O1 Matrix remark earlier

Does an MPO 02 matrix signify the 2nd pressing of the cd then?

Most of my UOF cds have the MPO 01 matrix but my Scream Bloody Gore UOF cd
has the MPO 02 matrix.

I have had it for years so I dont believe it is a bootleg but is it the 2nd
UOF pressing then.

I didnt know that so I would appreciate any info you had.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:28 am

Totalthrash wrote:In reference to the MPO O1 Matrix remark earlier

Does an MPO 02 matrix signify the 2nd pressing of the cd then?

Most of my UOF cds have the MPO 01 matrix but my Scream Bloody Gore UOF cd
has the MPO 02 matrix.

I have had it for years so I dont believe it is a bootleg but is it the 2nd
UOF pressing then.

I didnt know that so I would appreciate any info you had.

To my knowledge the number just indicates which specific pressing machine the CD came from. So if MPO had say 10 presses manufacturing the CD then it would have came off of press #2.