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nightsblood wrote:If you dig the album that's cool- enjoy it and don't let it bum you out if others don't like it.

haha thanks for the advice, i nearly did

no worries, i was just interested...ass

Still this isn't the case Alan, because there ARE standards people refer to; like I said anyone claiming to like metal would pretty much have to agree upon the fact that Adrian Smith can write a 'good' solo... Now, I do basically agree with you and acknowledge that most disagreements are about just that; personal taste, but like I said there ARE points which have to be seen as objectively 'good', otherwise there is nothing but chaos. Speaking of technical ability and the formulaic nature of certain bands/players, those are things beyond personal opinion because they are things that can be measured.

Of course there are musical standards but only as far as technical ability.
Musical taste is personal. Sometimes there are albums that just 'click' inside you.
There is an album that i still don't know why i like. It is the first Onslaught LP ("Power from Hell"). I don't like Death Metal, i don't like extreme vocals and normally i would never like this album, but... after all these years i still like it. Ok, i prefer "The Force" LP, which is one of my favorite Thrash LPs.
But i really don't know why, the "Power from Hell" is still great for me.

Here are some more examples:



Trop Feross is one of my favorite metal vinyls from Canada. I know that there are many metalheads that hate it. It is a classic case of "love or hate".

I don't like Killen. I know that most people in this forum will laugh at me because of my opinion. Sure, the music is pretty good but i don't like the vocals at all.

I have a friend that i help with finding records. One of his top wanted items is Mark Lowery. He just loves this LP.

And as for Dark Ages ("Medieval Sorcery"), what can i say, what a waste of vinyl and paper. Why i bought it, you may ask? Back when i bought it there were not any torrents, blogs or YouTube. If you wanted to listen to a rare album you had to find it and buy it first.

When people can agree on songwriting/technicality not being up to any certain standard it more becomes a matter of taste, the lust for the quirky and strange. Ok if people like Trop Ferros but no one can be serious about that shitty vocalist being good, they can say they like it, but not that it adheres to any common standard... Me, I love my Killen LP(thanks GJ ), it has great atmosphere, but I'd never say it was something people 'had' to like as there's nothing there to set it apart from the rest beyond its personal charm. Back to Paralex and Voltz, one band ventured to create something interesting, the other simply to espouse a certain energy and attitude... and then the formulaic gets praise.

chatzial wrote:

Spending money on KILLEN is like spending money on air:
Totally senseless!

(means: this bands sucks)

Do you know how different it is playing an album on a vinyl in front of you compared to skimming through MP3s? You immerse yourself in a totally different way, looking at that cover art, feeling the parts of the songs which fit in...

daniel wrote:Do you know how different it is playing an album on a vinyl in front of you compared to skimming through MP3s? You immerse yourself in a totally different way, looking at that cover art, feeling the parts of the songs which fit in...

Don't know what you want to say.
I can only reply, that I spend a few bucks on the (bootleg) CD and did regret it from the very first moment!

THIS is an "avoid" record.

chatzial wrote: Trop Feross is one of my favorite metal vinyls from Canada. I know that there are many metalheads that hate it. It is a classic case of "love or hate".

I don't like Killen. I know that most people in this forum will laugh at me because of my opinion. Sure, the music is pretty good but i don't like the vocals at all.

I have a friend that i help with finding records. One of his top wanted items is Mark Lowery. He just loves this LP.

And as for Dark Ages ("Medieval Sorcery"), what can i say, what a waste of vinyl and paper. Why i bought it, you may ask? Back when i bought it there were not any torrents, blogs or YouTube. If you wanted to listen to a rare album you had to find it and buy it first.

I AGREE 100%

I can add another or really MANY
But I really dont like Massiah Final Warning
But MANY people love it, Just not me

glockose wrote: But I really dont like Massiah Final Warning
But MANY people love it, Just not me

Why?
For the music? The lyrics? The drum sound ( )?

daniel wrote:No it's not, by any fucking stretch of the imagination, it has some amazing tracks, evocative riffs and lyrics and from a metal point of view that isn't even up for debate, it's simply akin to saying Black Sabbath never wrote a good song so shut the fuck up. Damascus and Paralex, well they are mediocre if anything is, boring "rocking" crap overrated because of their rarity.

Are you really going to argue subjective tastes here and use comparisons that are totally irrelevant? This album sounds nothing like any Black Sabbath album that I've ever heard...

I've had this discussion here many times.

The album has no balls whatsoever; in fact, I'd have a hard time even calling this Metal. I can really care less if the lyrics say otherwise, what determines a genre of music is not the lyrics. There is nothing new done on this record that wasn't done in the 70's.

chatzial wrote:I don't like Killen. I know that most people in this forum will laugh at me because of my opinion. Sure, the music is pretty good but i don't like the vocals at all.

I'm not trying to be rude here but if you dislike Killen, why do you own a copy?

Why would you think I meant it sounded like a BS album, it was purely an example to illustrate the absurdity of calling the record crap. Neither did I talk about it being some overly metal release, that's not even the case, the point is that MUSICALLY it is far more convincing and adventurous than redundant hyped shit like Paralex, and as far as I'm concerned if you've ever played music you'd understand that (though obviously there would be no agreement on this issue regardless of experience). ... We're entering the realm of the absurd, now you're going to tell me what has or hasn't been done in the 70's as if it meant a goddamn thing with regards to the Voltz record... You people can hate the record all you want but spare me the bullshit reasons why it "must" be bad, you clearly have next to no understanding of musical inspiration and base everything off of irrelevant contexts... I don't care if Haupt himself says it's a mediore record, it's simply not true, in the same way NO ONE would say "Powerslave" is not a good HM song - and I bring up these heavy hitters just to drive the point home that certain things are beyond personal taste; just because a record is obscure and not full on metal does not make it suck, and as a musician I can at least tell people complaining about lack of originality or skill to shut the fuck up when it comes to the Voltz LP. 100% serious? No. But I write that way to get you worked up.

daniel wrote:Why would you think I meant it sounded like a BS album, it was purely an example to illustrate the absurdity of calling the record crap. Neither did I talk about it being some overly metal release, that's not even the case, the point is that MUSICALLY it is far more convincing and adventurous than redundant hyped shit like Paralex, and as far as I'm concerned if you've ever played music you'd understand that (though obviously there would be no agreement on this issue regardless of experience). ... We're entering the realm of the absurd, now you're going to tell me what has or hasn't been done in the 70's as if it meant a goddamn thing with regards to the Voltz record... You people can hate the record all you want but spare me the bullshit reasons why it "must" be bad, you clearly have next to no understanding of musical inspiration and base everything off of irrelevant contexts... I don't care if Haupt himself says it's a mediore record, it's simply not true, in the same way NO ONE would say "Powerslave" is not a good HM song - and I bring up these heavy hitters just to drive the point home that certain things are beyond personal taste; just because a record is obscure and not full on metal does not make it suck, and as a musician I can at least tell people complaining about lack of originality or skill to shut the fuck up when it comes to the Voltz LP. 100% serious? No. But I write that way to get you worked up.

No one here is getting worked up except you daniel. The bottom line is that tastes are subjective. As has already been used as an example musical talent can be measured in technical ability and Ynwgie Malmsteen is one of the top contenders in that category when it comes to skilled guitar playing but people can still not like the material that he puts out. The internet is a free place and people can choose what they do and do not like. That aside that Voltz album doesn't show any above ordinary technical proficiency so you no longer have a moot point. You can tell me all you want that this album is adventurous, ground breaking and original, but that's really not true either as this record is just a continuation of what had already been done a thousand times in the 70's.

Plain and simple, this album is boring and has no balls. I keep seeing it mentioned in metal circles and I wouldn't even call this Metal. This is my opinion and I am perfectly entitled to it.

This imaginary basis in which you are trying to state is the only place that opinions can be formed from only applies to you.

Avenger wrote:

chatzial wrote:I don't like Killen. I know that most people in this forum will laugh at me because of my opinion. Sure, the music is pretty good but i don't like the vocals at all.

I'm not trying to be rude here but if you dislike Killen, why do you own a copy?

As i mentioned earlier, back when i bough many of my rare records, i did not
have any way to listen to them before buying them.

If you are asking why i did not sell/trade it away, nothing comes out of my collection. I just can't sell a record or CD from my collection. I know it is stupid but i just can't do it.

daniel- sorry, even your Adrian Smith example doesn't work. Yes, you can prove he is a proficient guitarist in terms of skill level, but you can't prove that he writes 'good' solos. I know people that don't like his playing that much in 'Maiden. They're a minority to be sure, but that doesn't make them wrong. Look around for a while and you will find someone who dislikes ANY given record/musician.

Killen- I remember it being ok but I never got excited over it

Trop Feross was weird but not terrible, I'd listen to it again

I also dislike Messiah's 'final Warning'; IMO that album has ZERO balls to it. Badly played bland metal with no energy, no hooks, nothing. I might rank it even lower than Voltz