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hload wrote:yeah, practically doom records, reborn classics(we all know who is behind this name, but i can't write his name because he is not here to defend himself,hahahaha), old metal/battlezone/no poser etc were the first to teach the divine art of bootlegging.....

glockose wrote:OK
Look lets do this one more time.

PLEASE READ

Bootlegging music has been around forever (all over the world)
It is a VERY hard thing to get in trouble for. (past a stop order)

This is how MOST of today's CD boots work in the USA
(since if you boot older (not popular)US music outside the USA it is too much trouble to do something about it so NOTHING WILL/HAS EVER HAPPEN TO ANYONE)

A person has no real morals, they convince themselves they are doing something GOOD "for the bands/for music lovers/for the rest of the world" doesn't really matter. Just they see nothing wrong with what they are doing.

They press up whatever CD they want, 100-500-1000 no matter

If caught by a band they:
1) try and work out a deal
sending either copies of the CD or some cash
Now remember it costs (we'll go high) $1500 to press 1000 CD's - who cares if you send 50-100 copies or $500 to the band, even if you sell them for $4 each you still make 2000

2) you can't work something out.
Worst case you are ordered to stop pressing and selling the CD's.
NO PROBELM you had no interest in re-pressing as you already had done it. You take whatever is left and trade them overseas for other cd's even if you send them all overseas (say 900 cd's for $1500 in trade) you didn't lose anything.

JUST MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PROJECT!

This is very easy and very simple. It will never stop and there is no way TO stop it.

The above is not pointed to anyone in general Vegas / Greece / Germany / OMR or any of the other CD folks selling on Ebay(if you look into Glam/AOR there are 1000's on for sale EVERYDAY) this is just the world of bootlegging in general

This is not hard to understand.
IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING THEN IT IS TRUE!

kingfowley wrote:

hload wrote:yeah, practically doom records, reborn classics(we all know who is behind this name, but i can't write his name because he is not here to defend himself,hahahaha), old metal/battlezone/no poser etc were the first to teach the divine art of bootlegging.....

I don't speak for others, no one should. do you speak yourselffor friends of yours? i hope not! never put words in someone elses mouth.

and now my label battlezone is bootlegs too? prime evil and biovore are boots?
haha you are wildddd

this is getting more and more outrageous as we go on.
WOW! you are searching desperately man!
really

are you in mexico as well?
if so please come to the 'sit down' with me and jose
if he will be so kind to meet and talk about all of this.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION TO YOU AND METALMASTER
DO YOU OWN EVEN 1 BOOTLEG? BE HONEST! THANKS

hload wrote:

kingfowley wrote:

hload wrote:yeah, practically doom records, reborn classics(we all know who is behind this name, but i can't write his name because he is not here to defend himself,hahahaha), old metal/battlezone/no poser etc were the first to teach the divine art of bootlegging.....

I don't speak for others, no one should. do you speak yourselffor friends of yours? i hope not! never put words in someone elses mouth.

and now my label battlezone is bootlegs too? prime evil and biovore are boots?
haha you are wildddd

this is getting more and more outrageous as we go on.
WOW! you are searching desperately man!
really

are you in mexico as well?
if so please come to the 'sit down' with me and jose
if he will be so kind to meet and talk about all of this.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION TO YOU AND METALMASTER
DO YOU OWN EVEN 1 BOOTLEG? BE HONEST! THANKS

no, i'm not searching anything....i was deceived a couple of times and bought your "releases" because i thought that by this way i was supporting the bands (Q5 and griffin, even if i had the original vinyls) especially that with Q5 was a huge disappointment because it cost me 30 deutch marks and then i had to pay another 30 to get the official rerelease with the bonus and huge booklet etc etc(back then in the mailorder list it wasn't mentioned under the name of Q5 if it was old metal or high vaultage release)....too bad that my hard earned money went to wrong hands.... but at least i'm not a hypocrite.....unfortunately i don't belong to the category who says that king's releases are different than the ones made by the greeks/germans etc....for me is one and the same.....

glockose wrote:HAHA
Getting nice in your older age. I like that. very good.
Catch more flies with honey then vinager.

30 DM should have only been about $20 at the time.
Please correct me if my math is wrong


Just in case you dont remember
Glockose = John Haupt

glockose wrote:HAHA
I said "older"

Unfortunately WE ARE the OLDER folks around these parts.

Either by age or just how long we've been doing this crap.

(been selling records for cash for 22+ years now...Crazy)

kingfowley wrote:Ohhhhhhh sorry all of you! Metalmaster, the asshole is just a stupid little jerk who dared to mention that King (the King!) was a bootlegger. And not just that, now King has himself reivindicated, and all of this aggreded and supported by the guys in this forum who raised him to the status of "a nice guy who try to save old metal making boot cds". Man, in that case those greek/german guys who released these series of cds with three bands (racer, hot metal, I think are the "labels" names) are SUPER GODS because they have bootlegged several more cds than (the) King. So, why to raise hell because a greek or a mexican or a russian makes a bootleg cd and just praise King because he does the same? Why greeks or russians have no rights to boot and while King has? I know, its anotyer example of American -selective- democracy.

WHY YOU GOTTA KNOCK FRIENDS OF MINE?

????????????????????????????????

Why the fuck myself in Blower or the guys of Karthago, Stormspell, battleCry, Sonic age, etc spend and waste lots of time and money to make quality reeditions with booklets, extra tracks, pics, remasterd sound, etc while King just get the cheapest non existing quality cds. Or can anyone tell me what Old Metal cd has quality. Cmon King, your cds cost you no more than .90 dlls per copy. Dont tell me you are doing this for love to the music, otherwise, sell your shit at the very same price you invest in your crappy cds. And to put the name of your "label" and your name does not make a cd original or non boolteg and just show you as a cinical guy.

MY PRESS COST ME IN THE BEGINNING $1150 FOR 500 COPIES
NOWADAYS I PRESS 1000 COPIES AND IT COSTS ME $1249
FOR THEM. ANDI PRESIG IS A GREAT FRIEND OF MINE, I MAY BE PUTTING OUT 'THE VAMPYRE YOU HAVE AS YOUR ICON SOON, WOULDN'T THAT BE IRONIC.

So, your first boots costed you mere 2 dlls, while you sold them in no lees than 8-9 dlls, right? Perhaps higher
Ok, your nowadays cost are $1249, then you can sell your cds at 1.24 dlls, 30cents more of what I mentioned. GUYS, PAY NO MORE THAN THAT FOR THESE PRODUCTS OF PURE AND GENUINE QUALITY, and never forget about the love to music these cds are gifted as well.
PLEASE DONT TELL ME WHAT YOU DO IS NOT FOR PROFITS!!!
As far as I know, Vampyr will be released by Stormspell rec, and it is announced at his website, and Iordan himself told me about its releasing by Stormspell, I pray you wont print it because such a great album deserved much much more quality than what you give to your boots.


I ask myself how you can say that you do it for love, when one can see the zero-quality of you releases, and then you come and tell me that your eath Metal band Deseaced has sold 100 000 records. Dont you get enough royalties to invest some more money and print better boots? Damn I think even Volve maked them much better quality wise. And something is more than hilarious is the fact that some guys name that old metal crap cds as "cult" and "legendary". How denigrated are both words nowadays...
So printing Witchfinder Genetral 7" was to fuck those high prices. Smart! You thought: those ORIGINAL eps are sold at very high prices, why to pay those dealers high prices if 300 fools can pay me 8 dlls per copy if I print them so, all the money goes directly to my pocket and my friends'. Good movement! Hmm I'm going to be curios and will ask you how much royalties you oaid to HMR for the releasing of that ep. And how much you pay to the owners for every release you print.

MY RELEASES HAVE GOTTEN WAYYYY BETTER, SEE BLOODLUST, SATANS HOST AND MY NEW WITCHY CD OUT NEXT FOR EXAMPLE!

THANX GOD THANKS!!!!!! Bootlegging quality gets better, that is for sure a rest for my soul. King... Bloodlust looks awnful

AS FOR W.GENERAL THAT GOT ME NOT MUCH AS MOST OF MY COPIES I TRADED AS NO ONE REALLY COLLECTED SINGLES THAT WAS MY OLD PARTNERS DOING MORE SO. CIRITH UNGOL DID BETTER AS IT WAS A 'UNIQUE' RELEASE AS W. GENERAL WAS A RERELEASE!

Well, I wonder how sold them so fast then, I remember that you mentionmed it was sold out within a couple of months both records. Dont tell me that you lost money. Anyway, yopu saved much without paying any money to anyone. That is called BOOTTLEGING, right?

H.M RECORDS GOT NOTHING FOR W.G THAT IS FACT, MAINLY CUZ MY PARTNER THEN HAD BAD TIME DEALING WITH HIM.
AS FOR PAYMENTS FOR BANDS
SOME BANDS GOT $$$ SOME BANDS GOT CDS, ALL GOT TAKEN CARE OF!
SOME BANDS GOT BOTH! NO ONE GOT NOTHING EXCEPT Q5 BECAUSE IT WAS PULLED! AND XCURSION GOT NOTHING, I DO WANT TO GET MARK SOME COPIES EVEN IF I GOT TO REPRESS FOR THAT FACT ALONE. RAT ATTACK GOT 150 COPIES FOR MY 1000 CDS JUST PRESSED, TOM WAS SUPER PLEASED!
FINGERNAILS GOT 150 COPIES. BLOODLUST GOT 200 COPIES OF THEIRS.

Man, I asked you to tell me how much you pay to the OWNERSs of the right of the records, not to the bands. I sometimes certainly think that you have no clue about whats copyright, othetimes (most of times) I think you simply elude to answer. Why dont you give me concrete answers to concrete questions?

This Exciter story almost meade me cry. I dont know if I almost cried all daylong due to happiness or shame... It is the first time I heard a musician gives millions thanx to the bootlegger in front of him, and not just that, but buys 4 copies of his own bootlegged cd! Didnt Jon kissed your hand as well? Man you are gifted by metal gods

NOW YOU ARE JUST BEING MORONIC! SOME FOLKS AINT AS 'DOWN' ON STUFF AS YOU ARE. EXCEPT IT AND MOVE ON. THE WORLD ALL HAS THEIR OPINION AND WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS.

I'm just mocking on you man. This fairytale is so hilarious that you cant do anything else than mock...

And I called you two faced because someone who really loves metal as you claim to, cant print bootlegs as you do. I have no idea of your personal life or your faminy and belive me, I dont care. This is a matter of musical level, about your bootlegs, not about how good father you are or how a nice neightboor everyone calls you, the man everyones loves in town.

I AM A GREAT FAN OF MUSIC AND MY FAMILY
YOUY'RE OPINIONS ARE YOURS, YOU'RE SET IN YOUR WAY AND THAT'S FINE!
I AM SET IN MINE. WHO'SE RIGHT AND WHOSE WRONG? NEITHER THE WAY I SEE IT! JUST SEE IT DIFFERENTLY IS ALL!

so what?

So, what is a boot some one has asked? Man, i dont see what is the mistery about a boot. A boot is to print, release and sell (in our case) a cd without the permission of the owner of the rights of that recording, which always is the executive producer. As you might know King, as a musician supposely you are, the owner of the rights are the ones who pay for the whole production, while the owners of the songs are the ones who wrote them, in other words, the band. So, it is easy to undertand that if you dont have a contract soigned by the owner of the production, you cant use them and if you do it, you are a bootlegger. And of course it is not valid to ask the members of the band for permission since they are not the owners of the record, undelss they paid for all the expenses. I see no difficulty to understand that... So, can you tell me King what titles you have released you got the rights from the owners. I love the smart way King makes a fool of himself. But well, if you show us the signed contracts by the actual owners of the records and youself, of every release you have done, then here, I will express my excuses to you and all the members of this forum. Deal King? After all, as you said, I dont know shit about this all and so, you have all chances to win. Otherwise I wont stop laveling like just a bootlegger and mention you double moral and you have to accep that you are a bootlegger.

MOST OF MY RELEASES ARE DONE ON A VERBAL AGREEMENT WITH BANDS. ONLY BLOODLUST, SLEEPY HOLLOW AND PREMONTION DID SIGNED CONTRACTS. DO YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING CLUE HOW HARD IT IS TO GET THE CONTRACTS YOU SPEAK OF MADE? IF EVERY NAME ON IT ISNT SIGNED AND DOTTED AND DATED IT'S WORTHLESS AND THAT'S ABOUT IMPOSSIBLE SOMETIMES! A VERBAL AGREEMENT IS LEGAL, I HAVE A LAWYER FOR THIS! AND IT'S WORKED GREAT MINUS JEFF MARKS OF WILD DOGS WHO BACKED OUT OF HIS AGREEMENT LATER AND LIED THAT HE EVER GAVE CONSENT!! BUT THAT'S OK MATT MCCOURT CALLED HIM OUT AS DID I.
YOUR STATEMENT ON CONTRACTS AND NOT VALID WITH BAND MEMEBERS I AM TOTALL AGAINST. ALOT OF BAND SNEVER SAW ONE CENT OF ROYALITIES FROM YOUR 'ANGEL-LIKE' RECORD LABELS, YET WHEN THEY WANT TO GET THIER MUSIC OUT ON CD AND PROMOTE IT NOWADAYS THEY ARE THE 'BAD GUYS'?! YIKES

Well I see you have answered your self about the boottleg nature of your cds. No proofs of legallity of your crap boot cds, at least in most of them.
I wonder how you cant get a contract signed by guys who you call your friends, while myself for Blower Recs have all my releases signed and not just that, but get extra stuff from the bands (who are paid as well). And I live thousands of Kms from Europe and none of them are my long time friends and do not live in my town!!! Man, this is not excuse!

Have you told your layer that you are dealing with guys who have no rights on those records (unless they paid for the production)?? Man, you need to change your layer. It is not me or you or your layer who decides who is the owner of right or not, it is not a matter of "I agree with this and I dont agree with that" IT IS THE LAW and COPYRIGHT STATMENTS, I see no difficulty to read and understand the law. Dont try to sell me this crap of you giving the bands loyalties for their albums because they never were paid for those records. You, King the avenger!

And no King, not in a million years I will ever go to a show of any of you both bands, simply because I dont like them. Both tell me nothing actually,

OK FINE! MEET ME AND TALK! SINCE YOU SPEND SO MUCH TIME ON JUDGING ME! MAN TO MAN TALK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EXCEPT WHAT WE ARE TALKING OF.

see response below

Just remeber King that this post deals with your boots, not others boots. Dont distract attention please. But if theres around anyone of Decapited, Racer, Vegas, etc then we can start a discussiona bout thier boots.

NO ATTENTION DISTRACTED! I SET EXAMPLES

Examples you talk too much about. And examples of how your bootlegs look worse than other bootlegs

And to be a family guy with few time, you took much to answer these post in these two days

YEAH BECAUSE MY WEEKEND WAS OVER! NOW HERE I AM AGAIN TO FINISH ANSWRING YOUR ACCUSSATIONS/QUESTIONS ETC.
THANKS AGAIN TO TOM FOR POINTING ME TO THIS.

...and didnt this guy Tom told you about the post I wrote months ago? you can read it scrolling up this post.

I WAIT TO MEET AND TALK WITH YOU FACE TO FACE!

thanks

As I told you, I wont go to the show and wont see you eaither, because this is an open discussion and all what must be discussed about this all must be done in this forum, not privately.


ps
oh you're the guy who put out insecticide (they offered it to me but it wasnt enough material for me), great friends of mine sherman and gimmie i've known since 88. next time you talk with em type 'with your teeth' in the message somewhere, it'll freak 'em out

DaN wrote:José, stop being such a drama-queen. Weather OMR are bootlegging or not is up for debate, sure, and the quality of the releases can definitely be discussed, but please quit the petty namecalling. It demeans the forum.

ION BRITTON wrote:Personally, i'm getting a bit tired with OMR's bootleg issue. I said my opinion before and it hasn't changed even after all these posts of various members. What amazes me though is that we are talking about the legality of OMR's releases as if it was a deeply religious issue. Like when you ask someone "Do you believe in God" and whatever reply you may get, it is acceptable 'coz it's a personal issue/choice/belief of each one.