Master Of Puppets

msp · Post by **msp** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:41 pm

Rust in Piece is a great album

mordred · Post by **mordred** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:45 pm

With Rust in Piece being such a popular album I try to listen to it every once in a while but... I don't know, probably a good shred/guitar album, but so much shredding and so annoying vocals it gives me headache and gets me longing for real class metal with real songs, like Master of Puppets.

msp · Post by **msp** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:50 pm

I can see why Mustaine's voice would annoy some people.

Anyhow, Master of Puppets is a great album as well. Not as a good as 'Justice' for me but some killer songs nonetheless

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:15 pm

Won't bother arguing, the compositions are flawless to me and so much more than mere shredding

Don't remember if this was brought up before but the chord progression of "Hangar 18" is the same as the start of "Call of Cthulhu". It's Rust in PEACE btw

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:01 am

I like 'Tornado of souls' and 'My last words' more than any Metallica track.

Ernest Thesiger · Post by **Ernest Thesiger** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:12 am

ION BRITTON wrote:'My last words'

This is my song of the day.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:26 am

mordred wrote:
Avenger wrote:I remember an argument mordred and I had about this in the past but I strongly believe the reason why "Kill 'Em All" and "Ride The Lightning" are superior albums to "Master Of Puppets" is largely based on the fact that Dave Mustaine was involved in the writing of "Kill 'Em All" and most of "Ride The Lightning".
I vaguely remember that, but I disagree. I'm not trying to take away from Mustaine his contribution to Kill and Ride, those are great riffs he did, but...

1. It was mostly just riffs he contributed while Metallica were infinitely better song writers. Compare Metallica's "Four Horsemen" to Megadeth's "Mechanix". They're based around the same main riff/general idea that is Mustaine's, but Metallica's version is much more dynamic and vastly superior.
2. I'm not a big fan of Megadeth. For me their catalog is mostly mediocre. If Mustaine's influence on Ride the Lightning was profound, why couldn't Megadeth do an album that was half as good?
3. Master of Puppets is for me the best Metallica album, so they did more than just fine without him.

I don't want to get into an argument based on tastes because neither of us can factually prove our points. However, I would disagree that Megadeth never wrote anything 'half as good" as "Ride The Lightning". I also think the long overdrawn Megadeth vs. Metallica debate has been done to death on every other single web page that discusses the two bands. I don't think "Master Of Puppets" is a bad album. I just don't think it's better than the first two. To me Metallica got worse with each album they released but again that comes down to tastes. Regarding "The Four Horsemen" vs. "Mechanix" I do agree with you here that this one goes to Metallica, but again, just how much influence did Mustaine have? I guess we'll never know. In the end, I think we can both agree that he did write a shit load of killer riffs.

mordred wrote:With Rust in Piece being such a popular album I try to listen to it every once in a while but... I don't know, probably a good shred/guitar album, but so much shredding and so annoying vocals it gives me headache and gets me longing for real class metal with real songs, like Master of Puppets.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of the "shredding" on "Rust In Peace" can be blamed on Marty Friedman. I'm sure you are familiar with some of his other works. Personallym, I'm quite fond of technical guitar playing so I don't have a problem with the material on the album but I can see why someone that's not into that kind of wankery wouldn't be a fan.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:55 am

I don't think there's any kind of 'wankery' in RIP, only technical powerful guitar playing.

mordred · Post by **mordred** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:55 pm

Avenger wrote:Regarding "The Four Horsemen" vs. "Mechanix" I do agree with you here that this one goes to Metallica, but again, just how much influence did Mustaine have? I guess we'll never know.

This issue alone is worth discussing because we can draw some pretty good conclusions based on known facts.

First: Mechanix/Horsemen it's quite clear how this happened. Mechanix was Mustaine's entire song (several recordings of Metallica performing it exist) and after he left Metallica rewrote it into The Four Horsemen while Mustaine kept the song as it was for Megadeth.

The other songs on Kill 'em All: All of them were around and played as they appear on the album by Metallica while Mustaine was still in the band. It seems quite clear he co wrote the songs he was credited for together with the rest of Metallica.

The songs on Ride the Lightning: Seems to me quite clear Metallica just incorporated another bunch of Mustaine's riffs into the new songs. For the record I don't think it was cool that they did that. Kill em all was one thing, they had an album written and were to record it, they had to get rid of a member, but recorded the album and gave him credit. Cool, but for the second album they should have relied on their own ideas only. Metallica took a huge step forward as song writers and musicians much due to Cliff Burton who was a schooled musicians. He brought in harmonies, time changes and much more dynamic song structures. Clearly some of Mustaine's riffs were incorporated into four of the songs on "Ride", but did Mustaine actually help structure, arrange and finalize those compositions? No, there is nothing to suggest that as none of the songs on "Ride" are known to have been around while Mustaine was still with Metallica.

Chafe · Post by **Chafe** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:42 pm

msp wrote:I can see why Mustaine's voice would annoy some people.
...Master of Puppets is a great album as well. Not as a good as 'Justice'...

Finally someone who thinks the same way that I do!
Well, Master of Puppets is a GREAT RECORD, but, it's not the best.
My favorite Metallica album is, definitively, Ride the Lightning, followed by And Justice for All.
Kill'em All and Master of Puppets are great albums as well, but not as good as Ride and Justice.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:26 pm

ION BRITTON wrote:I don't think there's any kind of 'wankery' in RIP, only technical powerful guitar playing.

I'm usuing it only as a general term for technical guitar.

Dokken_Uwe · Post by **Dokken_Uwe** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:33 pm

Just my 2 cents.

I like the classics: "Battery", "M.o.p.", "Sanitarium", "Orion" and "Damag inc.".
The rest is boring and overrated.

(in my opinion for sure)

mordred · Post by **mordred** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:13 pm

My favorites are actually "Disposable Heroes" and "Leper Messiah" (together with Sanitarium and title track).

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:22 pm

mordred wrote:"Leper Messiah"

Probably my favorite track as well. That main riff slays.