Page 69 of 165
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:23 pm
by ION BRITTON
sovdat wrote:ION BRITTON wrote:sovdat wrote:So you're actually saying that there's no good or bad music and everything's up to someone's taste ?!?!?!????
At least you could throw some arguments in instead of stuff like "this rules" or "it's crap" ...
I don't understand why you are
. Of course everything is up to each one's taste. We're talking about music dude, not maths nor physics.
I don't know if the second line was addressed at me, but if so, above, as you can see, i used -and i try to use as much as i can- phrases like IMO. No problem if you don't agree with me, you really don't have to, it's only my opinion and i would like to keep it.
Yes, one thing's one's personal taste but the other is if something's really good (in unsubjective term). in the matter of songwriting, lyrical structures, the originaly etc. I'm sure that there are great techno albums but I'll even take the Paradoxx MLP over any of them, simply because "it's not my style". Or for example one can pick a poor drawing made by 3 year old over Da Vinci's Mona Lisa because of his personal taste, but there is a huge difference between those when it comes to the actual quality. Or in metal, I will take 1st Piledriver album over Death's Symbolic any day, but I'll never admit that it's from unsubjective point of view BETTER than Symbolic.
Probably you were saying things about Paradoxx like me now about Piledriver, it of course it's up to everyone is s/he (dis)likes something, but my point was that there's for sure a difference between a good and bad music (or art of any kind) that's above one's personal taste.
Can you please define "actual quality" in music?
One album might be better than another in terms of technique, production etc, but all these things don't me shit to me if the music itself does not speak to my soul. This is what matters most to me.
For example, 100.000.000 people will say how great Led Zeppelin were. I don't like them at all, i can't accept them as a ''great band'', no matter what others might say. This doesn't mean that i don't respect them or their fans nor that i deny the fact that they influenced tons of bands. However i still consider them a mediocre band. The fact that i am one against so many doesn't make my opinion ''subjective" and their opinion ''objective" and vice versa. I don't know how to explain all these things better, for me, there is definitely not a golden rule that should apply to every fan, there are no ''defaults'' as to what is good or bad in music. You like something, then it's good FOR YOU, you don't like it, then it's not good FOR YOU.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:05 am
by sovdat
ION BRITTON wrote:sovdat wrote:ION BRITTON wrote:
I don't understand why you are
. Of course everything is up to each one's taste. We're talking about music dude, not maths nor physics.
I don't know if the second line was addressed at me, but if so, above, as you can see, i used -and i try to use as much as i can- phrases like IMO. No problem if you don't agree with me, you really don't have to, it's only my opinion and i would like to keep it.
Yes, one thing's one's personal taste but the other is if something's really good (in unsubjective term). in the matter of songwriting, lyrical structures, the originaly etc. I'm sure that there are great techno albums but I'll even take the Paradoxx MLP over any of them, simply because "it's not my style". Or for example one can pick a poor drawing made by 3 year old over Da Vinci's Mona Lisa because of his personal taste, but there is a huge difference between those when it comes to the actual quality. Or in metal, I will take 1st Piledriver album over Death's Symbolic any day, but I'll never admit that it's from unsubjective point of view BETTER than Symbolic.
Probably you were saying things about Paradoxx like me now about Piledriver, it of course it's up to everyone is s/he (dis)likes something, but my point was that there's for sure a difference between a good and bad music (or art of any kind) that's above one's personal taste.
Can you please define "actual quality" in music?
That's a very complex thing and of course it differs from music style to music style, from band to band. Music isn't sport so you can't judge something by how many riffs or how many beats per minute there is, neither you can equate separate parts of music as for example Slayer solos may sound great in their music, but could've come out as total crap if you'd put 'em in a total different environment. It's up for the debate and I'm sure that there's not an album on this planet for which everyone would agree that it is good or not, and I don't mean "it's (not) my style of music" debates here, but with actual arguments. Of course what it means to you is the most important, but there's a whole world beyond that. If you were about to write an review about certain album, would you write about your personal feelings about the music? Well, you might, but it would've been a pointless one since every reader would create his own.
As said, I agree with you with what matters the most (that's up to each individual), I don't follow any "rules" or stuff when it comes to my listening pleasure either, but I don't have any problems being critical to the albums I like or would die for anyway ...
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:59 am
by Nightlock
I see where you're coming from Sovdat and for the most part agree with you about us having to acknowledge good musicianship and the time/effort put into something. But don't think it makes every proggy technical release better one "some" level than your classic back to basics heavy metal release. While it's always harder to argue that the three year old is better than Mona Lisa "quality" is as subjective as personal taste.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:20 am
by ION BRITTON
Good musianship, skillful playing, good orchestration, well-written lyrics etcare things i will always admit if i hear them on an album. Those alone can't make me call the music ''great'' though. They have their importance of course, but it's the music itself that counts more than anything else as far as i am concerned.
Also, it makes things better if everything fits with the mood the music captures/wants to capture. I wouldn't like Martin Walkyier's lyrics on Sarcofago's INRI in no case, i like them they way they are, bad, evil and full of hate. They fit like a glove with the music. Neither i would like to hear a Malmsteen-like solo thrown in a Satan's Host track, it would ruin the whole experience.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:50 am
by sovdat
I never said that good musicanship alone makes good music, and the most bands that are referred to as proggy (let's just narrow to the bands that are for example called progressive on metal-archives) are far from that - it seems that everything with slightly "unusual" song structures and technical riffing is prog nowadays, and also nobody really cares about the lyrics. OK perhaps this isn't the best example as I've only heard a handful of their songs, but from those I did Dream Theater are great musicians, but the music as a piece sounds just as a soulless project of several parts thrown together + sleazy lyrics (well, the guy used to be in a glam band Winter Rose ..) ... yet they're hailed as the best progressive band today, but although I asked that many times nobody could tell me what their progression is
___________________________________________________________
Back to the topic:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CHASTAIN-Ruler-Of-T ... 286.c0.m14
God I'd like to have that
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:15 am
by Korgüll
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:21 am
by ION BRITTON
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, one of the best so far!
Only on ebay.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:33 pm
by tomas
Personally I think 'good musicianship' doensn't mean SHIT!!!
I don't care if musicians are technically skilled. In fact, I think being overly skilled leads to boring music (most of the time of course because there are exceptions). What I need is feeling.
Take the Shaggs for instance, I'll take their 'Philosophy of the world' album over ANY tech/prog metal release. They didn't know what they were doing but their heart and soul is in the music. (Which doesn't mean I think there's no heart / soul in tech/prog metal of course, but you guys know what I mean).
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:55 pm
by Korgüll
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:57 pm
by ION BRITTON
Keep them coming, Tom, very entertaining stuff!
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:36 pm
by mega_lodon
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:41 pm
by Korgüll
Ha! The band I was in are in that Issue 10 of Slayer mag!
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:49 pm
by Helm
Yes, one thing's one's personal taste but the other is if something's really good (in unsubjective term). in the matter of songwriting, lyrical structures, the originaly etc.
A bit late to this party but I just wanted to say that I know what you mean, and if you press that logic a bit, if you ask yourself some questions about these 'objective terms' on which you'd deem something to be 'objectively good' you'll find out that there are no such agreed terms, and indeed, everything about everything is a matter of viewpoint. Each of us has their own and it's an inalienable one. The joy of conversation is in getting to know people through their viewpoints, not in agreeing or disagreeing with them. Nobody's right, not in tastes of music or anything else. If you explore that concept you presented above further, push it, your life stands to benefit I think
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:19 pm
by peterott
ION BRITTON wrote:Keep them coming, Tom, very entertaining stuff!
http://cgi.ebay.de/MAYHEM-Songlyrics-Ca ... 0273103236
Read an interview that Maniac was so piss-drunk during htis concert that lyrics had to be written for him. Also very complicated lyrics like this one
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:48 pm
by amapola
peterott wrote:ION BRITTON wrote:Keep them coming, Tom, very entertaining stuff!
http://cgi.ebay.de/MAYHEM-Songlyrics-Ca ... 0273103236
Read an interview that Maniac was so piss-drunk during htis concert that lyrics had to be written for him. Also very complicated lyrics like this one
Maybe someone would buy used toilet paper from maniac? Sorry that`s all total insane.