15yo "Masters Of Metal"...?

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:54 pm

tomas wrote: And to comment on the 'taping music is the same as downloading'...
No, it isn't!!! When I used to make tapes (and I still do), it took a lot of time.
Everything happens in 'real time'. A 45min CD will take 45min to put on a tape. Then you had to write down the song titles. If someone gave you an EP, you didn't want to waste a full/new tape, so you went through your tape collection to find a tape that had +/- 20min of time left at the end...
Downloading is a lot easier. Switch on the computer and click the links or songs.

Thank you, tomas. I wanted to make a comment on it, but couldn't put an order in my thoughts.

To download 10 albums you may need 1 hour, maybe less. But you need probably 9-10 hours to tape them, it takes so much time that you really have to WANT to do it, you must be really decided. And imo that fact alone proves to a certain degree the love and hunger of someone for the music he hears.
Nowadays some people often complain that their download speed isn't that good, which means that they will download the album in 10 minutes instead of 3...i can't imagine the people with that attitude having the courage and the will to tape half the albums they have if they didn't have the internet.
Not that i personally don't download stuff, but i've been also through the stage of tape/CDR trading and know for sure that it's not the same. I've made trades of 50-60 albums/demos, most of which were rather average or even bad. But that didn't stop me from trading either, i'm quite sure people who used to trade the old way know what i mean.
Don't know if it's the feeling of jealousy that i feel towards the people who make their 100GB collection (that's how it's measured today) in a week or two, all i know is that my patience, dedication and will to discover what lies beneath surface has already been tested. I still have kept most of the wants i asked from each person i traded with, somethin to remember from that period... Anyway, in the end i may have found that only 5% of what i traded was worth the effort and eventually found its place on my fave-lists, but it doesn't really matter, i really enjoyed the journey from the beginning until the end.

msp · Post by **msp** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:16 pm

In the old days I used to spend an entire evening putting together a couiple of C90 tapes of demos to send out for a trade. A tape deck that had a high speed dubbing facility was a must!

Click of a mouse button is all some people understand these days. But this is what people are growing up with. That is technology for you. Maybe the mp3 generation will look back with nostalgia in 20 years when the latest advancement render mp3's old hat!

Cochino · Post by **Cochino** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:49 pm

I disagree about the mp3s being different from tapes. Of course taping takes more time and you can say it proofs how much someone wants certain album (still with my speed it takes me 40 min to 1 hour to download a full lenght so is pretty much the same as dubbing it) but I thought the whole battle on mp3s was to stop ripping the bands off, not as a proof of trueness. As someone said before, going that road is pretty similar to the Monty Python sketch. I happen to know a guy who owns a lot more of original records and tapes and has less mp3s than me yet he doesn't know half of what he's got and certainly isn't as half an enthusiast of Metal as I am.
Blaming the mp3s of ruining Metal is like blaming guns for killing. Is the people who fucks up things. Wasn't there a huge anti-poser thing going on in the 80s, before the internet?

MEXDefenderOfSteel · Post by **MEXDefenderOfSteel** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:48 pm

well then "adult kvlts" dont happen to co-exist as much with this "15metalmasters"as younger people(like me) that are really for the music, and dont want to fit in the retro trend of the moment...seriously is annoying to know so many of my age or younger than me that make so much fun about HM,still having "cool" myspace sites covered with covers without knowing to much about the band,"if everyone has them why not me",they think...

of corpse i could care less, they always come and go...plus im in my young "close minded" phase, maybe once i grow up i wont have anything against evreyone sudenly listening to metal just to have a laugh,get wasted and fit in todays trend....

so yea sorry if i gave a "childish immature point of view"

bigfootkit · Post by **bigfootkit** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:47 am

I've been able to appreciate and agree with most of what has been said here on this subject, and whilst i also concede the point the poster was trying to make, the idea of a "correct" order of discovering bands is sticking in my craw a little.
Whilst, personally, i can see the logic in taking in Sabbath before moving on to Witchfinder General, anyone doing things the other way round isn't neccessarily missing out, (unless WG puts them off hearing BS), things come to people in different ways or at different times. I doubt there are any 2 people here who were introduced to this music in the same manner.
To follow this "correct order" to it's logical extreme, should all start with Sabbath? Oh no, hang on, Blue Cheer is probably the correct starting point, hmm, hang on was Cream before them? Or Hendrix?
Opinions are like arseholes, we've all got them and a lot of them stink.
I like to fill in the blanks myself, and to this end i've been reexamining a lot of the 70's stuff and finding great stuff like Bloodrock, Poobah, Sir Lord Baltimore etc along the way, that's my choice, but we all have our likes & dislikes, our prejudices and personal foibles.
It's not an exam subject, it's the soundtrack to our lives.
We should be encouraging more in my opinion and nit-picking less, there will always be new converts, let's embrace them & educate them, it's good for the "scene" and hopefully, for the music the next generation will create too.

tomas · Post by **tomas** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:01 am

Forgot to mention this earlier:
35-year-old metal masters who shit on all the new young thrash bands without making a distinciton between good and bad, are as annoying as 15-year-old metal masters who claim to be cult and know all the obscure stuff.
The 'fuck the new kids playing thrash, only 80s metal is true' mentality always gets on my nerves.

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:29 am

bigfootkit wrote: To follow this "correct order" to it's logical extreme, should all start with Sabbath?

Well, since i was among the ones who said about the correct order thing, i'd like to clarify that i didn't mean it (and didn't write it) about following a strict, 100% logical order in the music you start to listen. Didn't mean that there should be a manual that says 1. SABBATH 2. MAIDEN 3. PRIEST 4. ACCEPT etc that everybody should necessarily follow. Nor am i saying that if someone listens to SABBATH first he should listen every single fuckin' note ever recorded from them and then move to the next band.

My point was that the major bands should have some kind of priority in the order. Do not mean that one should love all of them, but there are some bands that are so well-known and supposed to be ''big'' or ''influential'' that even people who are not into metal know a thing or two about them. Don't people who start listen to metal have THE CURIOSITY to listen to what the hell that damn MAIDEN or SABBATH that so many people talk about are before they start searching for HEATHENS RAGE? I mean we are talking about metal bands, not rock n roll or blues bands that influenced hard rock which eventually influenced heavy metal or whatever the hell happened anyway. I'm expecting from the young metalheads to give the major bands at least a chance while being in the beginning of their metal journey which doesn't mean that they should exclude any other less important band from their listens (that is, if they happen to come across one). If they will eventually like any them or not, it's a different story. On the other hand, if someone needs 5 years to discover how PRIEST sound like or to hear a couple of MANOWAR tracks, well, then, what can i say, more power to him and his search of kvlt metal.

bigfootkit · Post by **bigfootkit** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:51 am

I get what you meant ION, i wasn't criticising, as i said in my opening paragraph, and agree to some extent that the milestone bands should form the backbone of any "study" of the Metal genre.
I was merely meaning that it comes to us all differently, and if sufficiently interested and encouraged, the now legendary 15 yo MM, will arrive at the apocryphal bands in their own sweet time.
My own journey started with Kiss, AC/DC and Maiden in 1980, then because it was in full swing at the time, the NWOBHM, then Ozzy, Priest, Motorhead, Sabbath etc. By '82 i was into Anvil & Riot. By '84, M. Fate & Metallica. Hanging about with punks around 85 got me into Amebix, DKs etc. Then i got into drugs which started me listening to non Metal stuff too, like Hawkwind & Gong. By '88, there was still plenty of Metal in the mix but i was also listening to old US Hard Rock like Nugent & Montrose. Into the grunge years, and i liked some of that stuff too, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, great singers with big heavy guitars, fine! When the Nu-Metal thing came along in the mid-90's was when i really started looking back properly to find older stuff i'd missed, because for the 1st time, there was so little current music that grabbed me. Enter Manilla Road, Cirith Ungol etc. And i've been doing that "digging" with renewed fervour ever since.
All i meant was, your journey will have been different to mine, Dan's different again, likewise Helm and every other member of the board too.
If these kids truly come to love the music the way we do, they'll educate themselves accordingly in the fullness of time, in whatever order they find it, but the "old gods" will always be there to be rediscovered as the real benchmarks by each new generation.
You just have to leave it to them to find. At 15 i wouldn't have listened to some olde dude trying to tell me what i should listen to either.

*EDIT* It occurs to me too, that it would probably take a while to appreciate the "heaviness" of a Sabbath or a Priest if you got into the music as a result of hearing Mayhem or Co-Exist, at 15 that "old stuff" must initially sound pretty tame in comparison, but with maturity the blinkers will come off.

sagrotan · Post by **sagrotan** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:29 pm

tomas wrote:Forgot to mention this earlier:
35-year-old metal masters who shit on all the new young thrash bands without making a distinciton between good and bad, are as annoying as 15-year-old metal masters who claim to be cult and know all the obscure stuff.
The 'fuck the new kids playing thrash, only 80s metal is true' mentality always gets on my nerves.

Amen to that!

narrow-mindedness on whatever side is one of the accompaniments of metal that really pisses me off.

Fils Du Metal · Post by **Fils Du Metal** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:37 pm

Forgot to mention this earlier:
35-year-old metal masters who shit on all the new young thrash bands without making a distinciton between good and bad, are as annoying as 15-year-old metal masters who claim to be cult and know all the obscure stuff.
The 'fuck the new kids playing thrash, only 80s metal is true' mentality always gets on my nerves.

so this is he main point. But honestly said. I know a bunch of 35-45 year old "metal masters" and I myself belong to those.

And the thing is: I gave a listen to the new stuff a thousand times aready, even listen to CDs (although CDs are evil

and: I don't get it. There is nothing that is good...For my ears and soul for sure. I cannot force me to love something that bores me to hell, where the production is modern and electronic and I listen to it ten times and it gives me nothing...

Maybe a 15 year old guy loves it, he only knows this, starts with this, it is the sound of his generation. And it is good.

And so it is vice versa the reason why the 15 year old metalheads don't jump on the old stuff I love and think that it is a must to listen to and to know it.

That is the whole thing. Different generations growing up with different stuff on TV, literature and music. Only a few that go further and experience the old/new side of a topic and only a few developing into both.

Example just given: Bought the BONDED BY BLOOD LP on Earache. Bores me to hell. S
o for me personally only 80's metal is true. And everyone here shall and can listen what he wants. It doesn't matter at all. It is a nice multiplication of all this different metal lifes and perspectives here but listen what you want and not what others teach you.

tomas · Post by **tomas** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:09 pm

Bonded By Blood sucks

But there is definitely new thrash that sounds old.
I didn't mean that every 35-year-old metalfan is like that, but there some!