Your opinions on...

Recommendations, discussions, questions & debates regarding the godly Metal of olde...
Post Reply
User avatar
Avenger
Posts: 8188
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:36 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Your opinions on...

Post by Avenger »

Old Metal Records?

In case anyone doesn't know this was/is a label where a lot of classic metal albums of all different sub-genres were released WITH permission of the bands but not the labels that currently hold the rights to the original recordings. This was done because the labels even though having no plans to re-release the albums in the future still hold on to the rights legally, basically ever limiting any amount of exposure that the bands might ever receive if their albums ever saw the light of day a second time around.


Here's a more in depth interview that was done in 2004 with King Fowley (the guy behind the label):
Old Metal Records

I personally think this particular label was a really great underground label in which you concentrated on kind of “re-releasing” some of the rare and long out-of-the-print albums as a CD-format, adding even some bonus tracks into some of them. Can you recall when you actually decided to start Old Metal Records and what was your 1st release and last released on the label? Also how many releases did you put out on that label and what kind of editions you had for each release? As far as I can remember many of the releases on Old Metal Records were limited to 500-600 copies only and therefore they were sold out quite quickly?

"It started with a Cirith Ungol live single. I wanted for so long to put it out, so I did! It wasn´t ´legit´ and I was lucky the band contacted me and was super cool and happy about it!! I just wanted it out!! I began ´experimenting´ with bands and the label to try and repress old ´forgotten Heavy Metal classics´ to me in a time where the world was sucking up to shit bands like Alice in Chains and Nirvana. Metal was ´dead´ to a lot of weak fucks!! Not me! I decided: “Let´s put out Blessed Death CDs…let´s do a Rat Attack record!!” I don´t care what year it is! We may lose $$$, we may not! Let´s goooo with it!! It caught on quick. Became a great ´distro´ to a lot of cool metal fuckers the world over. It seemed to bring the heart beat back to a lot of them. Most importantly, I felt good to be doing it!! The ´business´ side wasn´t exactly ´great´ all the time. I had to call bands and ask them if I put their records out on CD and pay them back in not money, but copies of the CDs. Most were cool. A few changed tune over time and fucked me over royally. Normal human nature again! I met some real cool cats in Matt from Wild Dogs, Spacey T. from Sound Barrier, Victor from Laaz Rockit, Thomas from Griffin, Mike from Sentinel Beast, the Iron Angel and Witchcross guys. Also Sal from Cities. So it worked out!! Most are ´official´ through the bands and a few aren´t. I´ll let you guess which aren´t at this point, ha-hah!! It got me to be a headache at times ´coz the ´business´ was crazy and I met some truly complete hypocrites and liars. And GREEEEEEEEEEEDY FUCKERS, too!! That made it slow down. But… now Old Metal Records is BACK!! In 2004 we ruturn with Blessed Death DESTINED FOR EXTINCTION complete CD, Satan´s Host METAL FROM HELL through the band and much more to come! So hang tight!! The Old Metal releases varied and the most ever printed were 1,000 copies of stuff like Dr. Mastermind and Laaz Rockit. Most were 500 runs by a few headbangers using mom´s credit cards and photo shop computer gear, ha-hah!! Just nothing more, nothing less… "


Do you still have some of those Old Metal Records -releases left in your house - even small quantities?

"Very few left of any title! They were very limited, bro. I have 2 Sorcery, a few Liege Lord´s FREEDOM RISE CDs, maybe a few Dr. Mastermind CDs as well. Dave´s Metal on eBay has some quantity of a few ´out-of-print´ titles."

You obviously also had permissions to release all these “old metal releases” (Laaz Rockit, Blessed Death, Sentinel Steel, Premonition, Griffin, Wild Dogs, etc.) from each band via Old Metal Records as you were old friends with most of these bands. Didn´t you have any trouble with any of the labels that originally put out all this stuff a long time ago and most probably still had the legal rights to some of this stuff that you, however, eventually to re-released on your own label Old Metal Records?

"Mike Varney got pissssed…!! He was so upset!! He had ´heard´ I´d have had released 10,000 press of Wild Dogs CDs, ha-ha-ha!! The total amount was 500, man!! We talked and I pulled the title after this ´cuz he got all ´legal´ with me. It was all very stupid!! The bands were fine with it most of the time. Sadly their lives and records were often signed away to corporate record companies who had ripped them off the first time around and were trying to rip them off and ´kill them´ a second time, too. This SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! If the bands were cool with it, then I was, too. I put my address, name and # right on the releases. I wasn´t ´hiding´ nothing!! You´d laugh if told you some of the words the bands had for their ´business´ dealings with some of these record ´labels´, ha-ha-haa...!!"

So what killed Old Metal Records eventually? A lack of worth releasing, good “old metal” albums that were worth of your own attention, heh!

"Jealous dickheads elsewhere who wanted to knock me anytime they coud! Calling me a ´bootlegger´ and some money hungry dude, ha-hah!! You try making ´BIGGGGGG´ money on Xcursion or Griffin or Sound Barrier or most of my releases!! A few did quite well (Laaz Rockit, Blessed Death, etc.), but most sat and sat and sat and I ended up trading for other titles or selling them for like $5 postage paid. It was for the love of music!! Some see/saw that, others still don´t see that. Funny how a few ´headaches´ and people who ´called me out´ back in the day are now totally ´under the radar´ doing countless bootleg-CDs by all the ´cult´ metal bands everyone wants on disc these days. And ´hiding their names from it all!! So hypocrisy reigns on and on… Oh well, Old Metal´s back!!"
User avatar
nightsblood
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:11 pm

Post by nightsblood »

I've corresponded with King Fowley for years, so i'm biased here. He is indeed a nice guy and not in it for the money or anything like that. He loves old metal, so he put it out for people to enjoy again.
I only have 1-2 of the Old Metal cd's so I can't say much regarding how good they were in terms of quality overall. I have no issues w/ the ones I own.
I realize some people here will probably be pissed that some of his releases weren't 100% legit. While that's true, his motives were a lot more pure than all these jackasses you see in Russia, Greece, Mexico, etc putting out shitty bootlegs just to make a quick buck for themselves w/o even talking to anyone in the bands. King always did his best to put out a decent release and to involve the band/get their permission.
User avatar
great_knuthulhu
Posts: 1404
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:51 pm
Location: Norway

Post by great_knuthulhu »

I agree totally with what King Fowley was doing. If the people with the rights won't release it, they lose any moral rights to the recording and the band can do whatever they want with it. Screw "legal rights".

It's a different kettle of fish, but some of the Old Metal releases aren't exactly great quality. They're better than some lines of bootleg though, and worth getting, seeing as the original recordings are often pretty hard to come by.
I know I ain't doing much,
doing nothing means a lot to me.
User avatar
metalmaster
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:12 am
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Contact:

Post by metalmaster »

The products of Old Records are crap, very bootleg styled. The funny thing is that King even sells licences of albums he is not the owner. So, dont tell me he does everything just for love to Metal. Other wise he would buy the rights, print quality remasterd cds at low prices.

The bands have no right to give any permission to anyone if they are not the executive producers of the albums, simply because they didnt pay fo the production of that record. Of course they are the holders of composition.
User avatar
Helm
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Beyond the Realms of Arcana!

Post by Helm »

metalmaster wrote: The bands have no right to give any permission to anyone if they are not the executive producers of the albums, simply because they didnt pay fo the production of that record. Of course they are the holders of composition.
I want to ask if you find any moral, or even logical fault with the way things are as you describe them here.
Image
User avatar
ION BRITTON
Posts: 6645
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:07 pm

Post by ION BRITTON »

metalmaster has a good point. Because Fowley contaced the bands and they gave him permission thorugh the phone that doesn't give him the right to do anything the way he wants. An oral "OK" doesn't mean much on such cases and if you are indeed a thinking member of our society, you should know that very well. Sadly, there are some rules and laws the bands have to follow from the moment they put their signature on that fucking piece of paper. Maybe it's fair, maybe not, but that's it. If you do it otherwise, it is illegal. Il-le-gal. Sorry guys, i love metal as well, but i don't start rereleasing albums of bands that i like and i'm in contact one after the other, just because the guys from their old label were a bunch of pricks. A contract is a contract, if you don't like or you can't understand what it says, don't sign it in the first place. OPM, doomedplanet and so many other labels sweated their guts out in order to do it the right way and Fowley should have done the same thing. If he can't do it, he'd better stop.

Man, i had paid 15 Euros for that crappy WITCHCROSS CD. Was that CD the result of the work of man who does it ''for the love of metal" only? I want to see WITCHCROSS and TYRANT and LAAZ ROCKIT available again, but i want to see it done the right and proper way.

We have a very wise saying here in Greece that has to do with dicks and signatures, if anyone can translate it properly in English, i'd be grateful.
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win

"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
User avatar
Glockose
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: " shitty selfish attitude "

Post by Glockose »

Hello!

I have a quistion I would like to ask
AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KING.

People post songs (MP3's) on this site and others all the time. They don't have any rights to do this BUT IT IS DONE for the love of music and sharing.(No cost to the poster or the downloader)

If this is done so easy and with NO cost to anyone.

WHY would someone press vinyl and CDS (Bootlegs) and sell them even if they are just breaking even, for the love of music and wanting to get the music to the masses only?

Why not just upload it??????????
User avatar
hload
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:45 pm

Post by hload »

how did king ask for permition for example for his crappy Q5 release, only a couple of months earlier than the official rerelease from high vaultage with tons of unreleased stuff and huge booklet?

hehehe, i'll fix soon my press and then i'll start release stuff for the love of music.....
User avatar
sovdat
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:52 pm
Location: Slovenia
Contact:

Post by sovdat »

It's better than the other bootlegs, but his CDs could indeed have been released in better quality ...

glockose: Because people still prefer a "real" copy, you know, with inserts and a decent sticker over the CD(-r), no matter how crappy it looks, than just mp3s. Speaking about the "normal" people here ( :) - I mean the regular guys, who buy just few CDs, their all time favorite stuff, not everything they can find ...), most of them (that I know) are like - it doesn't matter if it's 1st press, rerelease, bootleg (they normally even don't know that it is a bootleg), the only thing that matters to them is that it comes with lyrics, some pics, etc.
User avatar
Nightlock
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:10 am
Location: Through the mist of not so distant future years.

Post by Nightlock »

glockose does raise a very valid point I guess King is somewhere in a grey area trying to redeem himself. Releases aren't the worst true but they are pretty cheap and would go much better with official re-releases.
"On your knees
Into the night that you'll never remember"
kingfowley
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:07 am

Post by kingfowley »

cheers to anyone reading! old metal records is something i've been doing for ages. along with a few friends who have come and gone with it, i've remained!

o.m.r has released many a release and through the 10 years the label is active, a few were not 'legit'! i have mixed feelings about it as i too play in a band. while i have no complaints for anyone getting music around i'm a part of, i can see bands point on stuff. sometimes it was try try try to find people and not suceed. other times it was just 'go ahead and do it'! past partners have had more of a 'just do it' attitude then me, and sometimes it suffered.

just about every release done on old metal has been ok'ed and giving blessings by the bands that were released. only a few bands (q5, xcursion)
never got in touch.

my purpose was to put my money up and get interest in a brand of music that was so fucking forgotten in most of the 90's.

it was done with what i had $ wise to work with. booklets were minimal at times and sometimes the lp is all i or the band had to work with. other times (when $ was better) you would get a real nice booklet ala liege lord, satan's host, or a cool vinyl ala sleepy hollow ep! i used what i had finance wise, and learned from my mistakes as i went along.

a few bands praise the shit out of old metal. a few people in other bands praised it then suddenly went another direction on their opinions (jeff mark of wild dogs is one example, boy is he a liar and a back peddler who switches stories as he goes along... you can thank his wife for that!!!).

it's a headache but i go on. my latest release BLOODLUST 'GUILT AS SIN' isa 100% official and is a great package. the master tapes remastered by bill metoyer himself.

if somone doesn't agree with my buisness ways, then by all means, avoid old metal!
if you can see the point of it all, then cool to all of that as well!

all i know is when no one cared about blessed death, i was there to bring the fire back!
when no one gave 2 shits about sound barrier, i did!
alot of bands thank me for getting the fire under the asses going again
and that is cool by me!

it's all about the music and that's all it'll ever be about.

cheers to music fans and anyone who sees it different or thinks i have ulterior motives, by all means please email me KING@UPTHETOMBSTONES.COM or make it public here!

thanks to tom for pointing me to this forum so i could speak out as well.

happy holidays to all the headbangers pro or con!


cheers, king fowley
Last edited by kingfowley on Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
kingfowley
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:07 am

Post by kingfowley »

metalmaster wrote:The products of Old Records are crap, very bootleg styled. The funny thing is that King even sells licences of albums he is not the owner. So, dont tell me he does everything just for love to Metal. Other wise he would buy the rights, print quality remasterd cds at low prices.

The bands have no right to give any permission to anyone if they are not the executive producers of the albums, simply because they didnt pay fo the production of that record. Of course they are the holders of composition.

oh and to comment on this.. "King even sells licences of albums he is not the owner", that is a blatant 100% lie. i've never sold any rights to anyone NOR CLAIMED TO HAVE. if a label puts 'licensed by old metal' on their product, that's them bullshitting you, not me bullshitting ANYONE!!!
User avatar
Nightlock
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:10 am
Location: Through the mist of not so distant future years.

Post by Nightlock »

If that's true disregard my last comment.
"On your knees
Into the night that you'll never remember"
User avatar
nightsblood
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:11 pm

Post by nightsblood »

Glad King got to put in his 2 cents.

Re: why not just upload music? I think you'll be seeing more and more of that now that the technology is widely available. It's easy to forget, but even just 10 years ago there was practically NO music available online! I remember trying to download a new Helloween song from the band's official site in '96; using a top-of-the-line set-up, it took over 20 minutes to download about 3 minutes worth of a song that had the sound quality of a 56 kbps file (or something equally horrid sounding) :(

Re: wanting people to put out top-notch reissues that are also cheap... this just isn't possible in each and every case. For some bands there's just not documentation and no one with original recordings or pictures is available to contribute.
It always throws me for a loop when people complain about the quality of bootlegs or semi-legit releases. Why would you expect these to be top-notch, professional releases? That's like going to McDonalds and then complaining that your hamburger isn't 100% Angus beef cooked medium rare and served with the house wine. If you only want top-notch, professional grade releases, DON'T BUY ANYTHING THAT'S NOT 100% LEGIT! If there's not a legit reissue available, then fork out the cash for an original, buy the bootleg and don't gripe about it being less than perfect, or simply wait for a good reissue (some people seem to think they MUST own every single thing and think that there should always be a pressing available for them to buy whenever they want, which isn't realistic)
User avatar
ION BRITTON
Posts: 6645
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:07 pm

Post by ION BRITTON »

A legit release doesn't always mean that it will be top-notch. We all know that and the examples are too many.

But if a release has indeed high quality on every possible aspect, personally i am willing to support it even if the total cost raises much more than the usual. Also, i don't understand the term ''professional grade" on metal, passion, dedication and hard work are the only things i see.
For some bands there's just not documentation and no one with original recordings or pictures is available to contribute.
That's true. On the other hand, i own three Witchcross demos and their 7". I didn't see not even one bonus track on the CD reissue, why?

Always wanting a pressing available isn't realistic at all. I wish OPM's IRON CROSS DLP was still available as i didn't have the money to buy it when it came out. I missed it and it was my fault. It's out of print now and the story is over, no point complaining about the small quantity or whatever. That was the best they could do and it was my mistake i didn't buy it when i should have. I accept that fact and only hope for a 2nd legit reissue in the near future, that's all i can do.
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win

"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
Post Reply