Early Black Metal - what were the bands?

FuneralCircle · Post by **FuneralCircle** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:28 pm

Hardcore Punk influence in Black Metal is undeniable, just as it is in Thrash or Death Metal...

Really though, I don't know why everyone thinks Mayhem started Black Metal when they came as late as 1994 with their full length. Under the Sign of the Black Mark was 86, and that's probably the first BM album to me! If not the first Bathory?

Cochino · Post by **Cochino** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:30 pm

That's right about Blasphemy being more Grindcore than Hardcore, I meant that since Gridncore is pretty much sped-up Hardcore sometimes with a bit Metal thrown in. About Hellhammer/Celtic Frost and punk, this is an interesting article regarding Steve Warrior http://www.goodbadmusic.com/2010/12/12/ ... land-1985/

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:41 pm

Thank you I'm going to read that.

I forgot to precise that I hardly think that some NYHC (for example) were listening to Celtic Frost, but, why not after all.

Listen to this Agnostic Front track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCa01Xjk7zI

TOTAL Celtic Frost worship main riff. More obvious than a big mac in a mcdonald restaurant.

Cochino · Post by **Cochino** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Well, I have a friend who was a Punk in the 80s and doesn't like Metal that much, but he does like Celtic Frost and Hellhammer so I guess it was pretty normal back then.

great_knuthulhu · Post by **great_knuthulhu** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:26 pm

FuneralCircle wrote:Hardcore Punk influence in Black Metal is undeniable, just as it is in Thrash or Death Metal...

Really though, I don't know why everyone thinks Mayhem started Black Metal when they came as late as 1994 with their full length. Under the Sign of the Black Mark was 86, and that's probably the first BM album to me! If not the first Bathory?

Just a small comment on Mayhem. Their LP was indeed late, but their first demo came in '86 and I remember that one was fairly well known, at least in Norway at the time. I don't really know how widespread it was in tape trading circles at the time though. National radio in Norway actually played early Mayhem stuff. I taped some of it, but the tapes are long gone.

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:17 am

Euronymous was the guide of Norway's BM bands. So it is logic that his band MAYHEM is view as the ancestor/pionneer.

+ in 1988, MAYHEM got his famous line-up (Dead, Euronymous, Necrobutcher, Hellhammer) and in 1990 the half of De Mysteriis was composed and palyed live and displayed to other bands on tape.

Fenriz said that Live In Leipzig was given to them in 1990. So MAYHEM's most Black Metal songs were available a long time before the release of DMDS

So MAYHEM is the true pionneer of BM in Norway, the first band even.

THORNS is also known for pioneering, beside they haven't got any success. It's true that on their demo, you feel the future BURZUM or other cult bands. Really strong atmosphere.

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:13 am

Cochino wrote:http://www.goodbadmusic.com/2010/12/12/ ... land-1985/

Thank you it was really interesting!!

Fire Down Under · Post by **Fire Down Under** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:14 pm

if it wasn't already mentioned, listen to Reencarnacion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZhocu6kV_Q

the main riff and ESPECIALLY the last minute are blueprints/prototypes of the scandinavian "trve-grim-frostbitten" Black Metal sound

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:22 pm

Oh, you make me think of something.

A friend of mine juste noticed that too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7MOVP-gzzM

At 1 min 01 sec : During 20 seconds it's so identitcal to IMMORTAL "Pure Holocaust" album !!

hahaha

TANKARD FIRST WAVE BLACK METAL!

Plantweed · Post by **Plantweed** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:03 am

Random notes...

I thought everyone knew that Hallhammer's main influences were Venom and Discharge, with an added dose of graveyard pallor.

The highly-copied BM guitar style was invented by Snorre Ruch (Thorns) and/or Euronymous.

Some bands that were called "black metal" in the 1980s when they were active:
Medieval
Prophet
Running Wild
Tankard

Timewind · Post by **Timewind** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:29 am

I've only had a quick skim over this thread, so apologies if this has already been asked..

The gist that I'm getting from the posts is that the term "black metal" is being applied retroactively to a lot of the 80s bands mentioned...

but for the old folks, which of these bands were actually called "black metal" (as opposed to death metal, heavy metal, thrash, etc) by the media, fans, etc?

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:46 am

DEICIDE was called Black Metal by Euronymous and Varg. Was it ? No.

MAYHEM was called Death Metal on their flyers, was it Death Metal ? No.

There's a lot of Black Metal bands that have been called Death Metal, and the opposite, many DM have been called BM (Morbid Angel, Possessed...)

So why focus on "one day, somewhere a man called this band black metal (or death metal)" ? I don't understand that. You might have a fanzine where a guy said that but it proves nothing.

The better proof is the "Death Metal" split CD, containing absolutely NO Death Metal band... So everybody agree it was non-sense and just a "catchy/scary name" added here with no real meaning. For me it's the same with the Black Metal term.

So, when they said "Black Metal" in 1983, it probably has no sense at all, even for them. It was just "fun".

I'm maybe wrong but that the vision I have.

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:53 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4XXFy2U ... re=related

According to the opening list of this thread, this is Black Metal...

I am not convinced.

J.K. · Post by **J.K.** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:59 am

I just found that on Thomas Gabriel Fisher blog:

Really interesting. Nasty Savage credited as Black Metal is the most surprising.

This is the proof that we can find every band labelled under any genre, so we can't trust some sources.

Plantweed · Post by **Plantweed** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:13 pm

Trying to retroactively apply a rigid taxonomy to '80s underground bands is ultimately fruitless. The genres were not yet codified as they are today, ad nauseum. Basically there was "old metal" (Priest, Maiden, etc.) and "new metal" (the heavy shit). Black metal as a term was usually thought of as just any band (no matter what they sounded like) that had Satanic lyrics and a dark image. As someone who bought these records and drank and got high and fucked to them when they were new, I can tell you that To Mega Therion and Hell Awaits were absolutely death metal to me and everyone I knew. Mercyful Fate was as heavy and evil as "heavy metal" could get before it stepped over into "thrash metal." "Speed metal" is kind of a goofy term because not every song by say, Agent Steel, was fast. "Power metal" was used for bands that were heavier than traditional metal, but still not thrash. Etc.